Curse

Hella Good · Jul 31, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Ugh... I'll pretend I didnt see the above statement about Mesmers being only good as a 2ndary...

Paragons are fairly boring to me, is all I can say. I attempted to make myself slighly interested in the profession but it is just so supportive and lacking any character of its own that it was completely impossible. I do acknowledge the benefit of having one in an 8 person team but the one thing I'm going to agree with DeathShadowX is we will most likely see the Paragon used as a 2ndary- no need to waste a whole slot on an entirely supportive character that other than support cant do jack.

Lostthought144 · Jul 31, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I like going A/P now thats a critical spear

unmatchedfury · Jul 31, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

i'll say this. there were some paragons that took me danw even with my CoP derv build

Wretchman Drake · Jul 31, 2006, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Ugh... I'll pretend I didnt see the above statement about Mesmers being only good as a 2ndary...

Paragons are fairly boring to me, is all I can say. I attempted to make myself slighly interested in the profession but it is just so supportive and lacking any character of its own that it was completely impossible. I do acknowledge the benefit of having one in an 8 person team but the one thing I'm going to agree with DeathShadowX is we will most likely see the Paragon used as a 2ndary- no need to waste a whole slot on an entirely supportive character that other than support cant do jack.

Obviously you don't 4v4...

Paragon secondary is a waste since primary they can have Leadership. You obviously don't know the benefits of Leadership either...

If you're going to talk about a class' performance like that, make sure you play or understand one fully first.

Chris Blackstar · Jul 31, 2006, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Devishs are just like touch rangers, a noob build made for quick kills with no skills what so ever. Paragon was the first profession I tried, and I got more kills with that, just using basic spear skils, with traps then I did with the devish profession. Notice this however, that both professions lack in elete skill numbers.

I think we are going to see more Devish/monks, and Paragon/ritualists in the near future do to how the professons seem to work best together.

What pisses me off is that these new professions lack are not orignial, but combonations of existing characters with extra modifications, I have noticed the a paragon is a ranger, warrior mix, weapon is like a bow, but with a faster attack speed, and armore likw a war, but with elemental bonus like ranger armor, damage for spear is almost the same as a bow.

Devish is a monk/warrior combo, armored like a monk, weapon like an axe, except more powerfull, and skills offer better self protection. I am sure there are more, but I did not explore the profession that much, some basic observations.

I hope next time they make a thief , the thief would have skills to steal treasure with out attacking off monsters, lock pick to open chest with out keys, and stealth plus back stab to spike and kills things in one or two hits.

I feel the only real way to get to know these professions is to wait until nightfall comes out, then create them and go threw the missions to understand their true mechanics. I will admit when Factions came out for beta, I could not understand how a rit or sin worked, untill I developed both professions, I also used to think assasins sucked until I understood how the build works, now I can see that they are better at dealing direct damage, more so then a warrior, but like a caster lack in the absorption of it. I say we will have to wait and see how these professions truely progress.

I don't care what people think, stand alone or not, the games can be linked, and it adds the colection of the series.

Mr Slashalot · Jul 31, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

OMG I LOVE PARAGON and im sick of all this dervish crap so thanks for this thread.
today i did a little ab with a modded pre-made, i did 5 matchs and every time no 1 would mess with me, they even ran away after seeing me

. and at the end of the matchs i was holding the enermy base door on my own. i was free lancing and taking on teams of 2 and stuff

i used
Barbed spear
Disruping Throw
Cripple anthem
Anthem of flames
Leader's comfort
"Lead the way"
Virulence {E}
Plauge touch

charged up adren use Cripple and flame anthem
Attack with Barbed and then use virulence
keep hiting with barbed/Disruping with anthem of flame

i took some screen and as soon as nightfall comes out i will remade that build
cos love it and it works just so well

THANK YOU A.NET FOR BRINGING US PARAGON

Khift · Jul 31, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I have built an offensive GvG spike paragon, but the fact that I spent the weekend moving kept me from being able to test it. So, I'll post the theory here:

Anthem of Envy -- 6A, 1 cast. Chant. For 10 seconds the next attack skill used by each ally within earshot deals +(17) damage against foes with more than 50% health.
"Go For The Eyes!" -- 4A. Shout. For 10 seconds the next time each ally within earshot makes an attack that attack has an additional (65)% chance to be a critical hit.
Vicious Attack -- 5E, 8 recharge. Spear attack. If this attack hits you deal +(25) damage. If you land a critical hit with this attack, target foe suffers from a deep wound for (13) seconds.
Harrier's Toss -- 10E, 1/2 cast, 10 recharge. Spear attack. If this attack hits it deals +(17) damage. If this attack hits a moving foe it deals an additional (25) damage.

(Note: Numbers in parentheses are based on 12 points in that attribute. This build would need 16 in Spears, though, so the last two skills will have noticeably larger bonuses.)

With these four skills, a Paragon can do a ranged spike that hits very much like a Warrior's adrenal spike, and when you factor in that Anthem of Envy and "Go For The Eyes!" affects your fellow spikers as well you will realize that this character could quite possibly replace an entire warrior in an adrenal spike build. Spiking with one Warrior and one Paragon is very desirable -- the enemy's monks are no longer able to read your spikes nearly as well and if the damage is the same, all the better. Even if that does not work out, though, a balanced build with two Warriors and one such Paragon would have massive spike potential, possibly able to punch through a pre-placed prot spirit even.

And the best part? We still have 3 skill slots, the secondary, and the elite to pick! With these slots... the options are endless. Just to list a handful of Paragon skills which I deem potentially worthy of these slots: "Fall Back!", "Incoming!", Aria of Swiftness, Crippling Anthem, Song of Purification, Aria of Zeal, Ballad of Restoration, Hexbreaker Aria, Signet of Synergy, Barbed Spear, Mighty Throw, Cautery Signet, "Lead The Way!", Aria of Power, and Defensive Anthem. I could see any one of those in these last slots; they're all quite powerful, it's just a matter of figuring out which. Or maybe you'll take skills from your secondary -- who knows!

This character has a very powerful self reliant ranged spike and a huge bag of supportive goodies to pull from. This, IMO, has the potential to become a staple character of balanced upon Nightfall's release, much moreso than any Dervish build seen this weekend.

twicky_kid · Jul 31, 2006, 05:56 AM // 05:56

All I have to say is Enduring Harmony For great justice on the war and Anthem of Fury.

We can now remove the pet from thumpers since the DP has made them a liablility. This is going to be huge for wars too. Under FGJ Anthem at 3-4 will yeild 5-6 adrenaline back. With Enduring Harmony FGJ will last for 30 seconds giving a 15 second cool down time. You can add dark fury to this and under FGJ you have a 3 adrenaline gain from every hit.

We might see frenzy removed from the wars in place for some other IAS to spike with.

Spura · Jul 31, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Slashalot

OMG I LOVE PARAGON and im sick of all this dervish crap so thanks for this thread.
today i did a little ab with a modded pre-made, i did 5 matchs and every time no 1 would mess with me, they even ran away after seeing me

. and at the end of the matchs i was holding the enermy base door on my own. i was free lancing and taking on teams of 2 and stuff

i used
Barbed spear
Disruping Throw
Cripple anthem
Anthem of flames
Leader's comfort
"Lead the way"
Virulence {E}
Plauge touch

I think flame anthem is too much. Bleed+poison+disease will hit the -10 regen cap, so no need for burning. You could swap it for rez signet or for "Never surrender" for extra defense.

Also you could swap out plague touch and swap in song of purification, which allows you to remove conditions while spamming your skills.

Spura · Jul 31, 2006, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar

What pisses me off is that these new professions lack are not orignial, but combonations of existing characters with extra modifications, I have noticed the a paragon is a ranger, warrior mix, weapon is like a bow, but with a faster attack speed, and armore likw a war, but with elemental bonus like ranger armor, damage for spear is almost the same as a bow.

When you have 10 professions in the game it is nearly impossible to have something that is not in some way similar to some other profession.

If they put in druid with bear shape and some spell buffs for example, then people would say it is just a W/Mo, tank with some buffs. Any low armored melee with lots of defensive spell buffs can be compared to monk/warrior. Dual classing does that. Heck, we have ranged attacker(ranger), ranged spell nuker(ele), healer(monk), melee attacker(warrior), disruption caster(mesmer), debuffer/buffer(necro). And since you can combine 2 classes, you can get any mix of those. That makes it virtually impossible for any concept class to be remarkably different without being totally wack.

So people complain that some new class is actually x/y despite every new class introducting a new mechanic. For instance ritualist has weapon spells, holding item spells, binding rituals, yet people whined it is actually monk/ranger mix with a bit of ele thrown in.

kimahri · Jul 31, 2006, 11:54 AM // 11:54

I created a R/P using expertise and spear mastery only. My main skills wa obviously Spear of Lightning and I also had other skills to be able to spam, was quite fun. I thought of creating a D/Mo but I wanted to design my own build (but prolly others made the exact same build).
I missed most of the event but I think the Paragons have great potential indeed.

Zazoo · Jul 31, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

I tried the Devish over the weekend and yea some of the skills are fun to use, but I didnt think it was great.
Lost interest in them very fast.

The Paragon on the other hand I found VERY nice.

I played the R/P and had a ot of fun with it.

Hella Good · Jul 31, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Obviously you don't 4v4...

Really now? Ironically "obviously you don't 8v8" would've been less of an absurd statement. Obviously you wouldn't know anyway, would you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Paragon secondary is a waste since primary they can have Leadership. You obviously don't know the benefits of Leadership either...

Benefits of leadership versus the waste of an extra character slot in a team... Hmm, tough one. I'll go with no leadership and one less wasted slot on a support character. Surely, there is good skills in leadership, but nothing that a team can't manage perfectly well w/o. Motivation/Command offer solutions that are just as (if not more) potent. And the nrg management side of the attribute can be matched with nrg management skills from other professions. All I am saying is: in a situation where a build maker has a limited amount of slots to use, a Paragon will most likely be included as a 2ndary. You don't know much about how build making works either, do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

If you're going to talk about a class' performance like that, make sure you play or understand one fully first.

If you are going to respond to a post like that, make sure you fully understand what the post is saying.

Aug · Jul 31, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I played the Paragon almost exclusively this last weekend, and while the support capabilities were powerful in 4v4, I really don't think it will transfer into 8v8 very well.

I primarily used the W/P premade, with a few modifications. I changed the skills around, using Gladiator's Defense in place of Cautery Signet, and Anthem of Guidance (whatever the Command shout was) with Lightning Spear. I used 12 Spear, 13 Motivation, 9 Tactics, and 8 Leadership. I only started having energy issues when 2 or more party members were out of my shout range.

Mending Refrain seemed to be the most powerful heal they had access to, yet it'd be useless in a GvG environment, as keeping track of which people you have it on, and making sure they're in shout range is a real hassle. If you had 2 Paragons and 1-2 Warriors, maybe you'd have enough shouts going off to cover a wide enough area for typical GvGs.

Nikki Moonlight · Jul 31, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Paragons are fairly boring to me, is all I can say. I attempted to make myself slighly interested in the profession but it is just so supportive and lacking any character of its own that it was completely impossible. I do acknowledge the benefit of having one in an 8 person team but the one thing I'm going to agree with DeathShadowX is we will most likely see the Paragon used as a 2ndary- no need to waste a whole slot on an entirely supportive character that other than support cant do jack.

Yeah...The paragons looked like they could be useful..but they seemed to supportive for me to want to play them..if i wanna be support i'll just play monk and do straight out heals instead of trying to keep the echo's up and working..too much hassle for me, but they do seem like they could be useful.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 31, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretchman Drake

Do people not see how good Paragons are or are they too ignorant with the Dervish?

The paragon in the preview was great (will they replace rangers, I wonder?) but not broken-silly-beyond-belief-great like the D/Mo's in the preview. I still preferred to play paragon. I tried dervish, but cycling buttons in a preset order got boring even if enemies died left and right around me. If I wanted to do PvP without using my brain I'd run a touch ranger.

JoeKnowMo · Aug 01, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Paragons are fairly boring to me, is all I can say. I attempted to make myself slighly interested in the profession but it is just so supportive and lacking any character of its own that it was completely impossible. I do acknowledge the benefit of having one in an 8 person team but the one thing I'm going to agree with DeathShadowX is we will most likely see the Paragon used as a 2ndary- no need to waste a whole slot on an entirely supportive character that other than support cant do jack.

Paragon secondaries will not be as useful as Paragon primaries, mainly due to the energy gain from Leadership. Kinda like a secondary Rit trying to spam defensive spirits.

TadaceAce · Aug 01, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathShadowX

paragon imo is like mesmer...

they are good 2nd profession but as a 1st not so much..

imo again..

Do you believe the things that come out of your mouth? I can't think of any very common X/Me builds besides Mo/Me but I can think of 101 Me/X builds....

Why do you guys think mending refrain is so good, its recuperation but watered down to a pain to maintain and put on people.

As far as I'm concerned there is only gonna be two paragon builds, R/P and P/W. Well that and P/Mo's using mending in pve (you know its gonna happen).

The Exodus · Aug 02, 2006, 02:32 AM // 02:32

paragon seems like a very good class to have in an 8v8 fight...

assuming you have 2 warriors (one axe, one sword or hammer) then imagine the spiking potential of "go for the eyes". with command at max, then its a +65% critical hit chance. take that with the 23% chance of a crit with 16 weapon mastery, then you have an 88% chance of a critical hit

.

eviscerate with that does about 80-90ish damage, plus a deep wound's 100, while a devastating hammer will do about 100 damage and knock down or a dragon slash with around 70 damage. this damage is made better with anthem of envy, which will add 17 damage to both attacks. thats around 300 damage, and kd if you use a hammer in one attack from each warrior

. this doesnt even include the paragon's damage if they join in the spike or the follow up attacks from the 2 warriors. if the monk doesnt get a prot spirit up, then the targets down.

i can see paragons in the 8v8 scene very easily...

JoeKnowMo · Aug 02, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

I'm really intrigued with Paragons as a support class. As one example, imagine having your Warriors with 4 pips of energy, Rangers w 5 pips, and 'Sins with 6 pips of energy regen for pretty much the duration of a match. Think about the serious pressure they could put on another team, esp. in 8 v 8. Here's how:

Aria of Power (Leadership) - For 10-40 seconds, each ally within earshot gains 2 Energy regeneration until that ally casts a spell.

Costs 25 energy, recharges in 45 seconds, 1 sec cast time, and it's a chant so it can't be removed. Yes, it costs 25 energy, but the Paragon will also benefit and will get 4 pips as well

At about Leadership 14 or higher, you should be able to keep this chant up forever.

The downside is that your Warrior can't cast Mending on himself and that this will benefit Touch Rangers too, since they proly won't need OoB anymore