Curse

Wretchman Drake · Nov 14, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

I would love some help on learning how to play a Paragon, especially in PvP. I see the skills and it always seems to me they aren't enough compared to monk spike heals, etc. I don't have the right mentality or builds, so I urge if someone can help me out and teach me some Paragon 101 lessons here, such as what builds and how to use them, etc.

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LightningHell · Nov 14, 2006, 06:17 AM // 06:17

There are a few skills that are very, one might say insanely, helpful:

"Go for the Eyes!"
Energizing Finale
"Watch Yourself!"
Aria of Zeal

Energizing Finale means a hell of a lot of energy returned.

Elites include "Incoming!" as a chain.

Wretchman Drake · Nov 14, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

I see. Yes I can see how they help with the energy, very nice. Any other skills I should be aware of? What elite is most useful? IN your opinion of course.

LightningHell · Nov 14, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Depends on your team, really. However, "Incoming!" is very good if you're aware of the battlefield. Also, something that can be tested is "Charge!".

A usual Paragon bar would have:

"Watch Yourself!"
"Go for the Eyes!"
"Find Their Weakness!"
Anthem of Flame
Energizing Finale
Aria of Zeal
"Incoming!"
Resurrection skill (Signet of Return or Ressig)

Thom Bangalter · Nov 14, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I like song of restoration, personally. Incoming is solid in GVG as an anti-spike skill, and general damage mitigation while vs pressure.

jesh · Nov 14, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

A usual Paragon bar would have:

......
Anthem of Zeal
"Incoming!"
Resurrection skill (Signet of Return or Ressig)

I see Zealous Anthem, and Aria of Zeal.. unless you have a skill I don't, I'm confused.

LightningHell · Nov 14, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Whoops, I mean Aria of Zeal.

/slapself

Shadowfox1125 · Nov 15, 2006, 02:51 AM // 02:51

A combo used in GvG: Mending Refrain + Energizing Finale. Use Mending Refrain on every party member and support them with chants/shouts that renew Mending Refrain each time every chant/shout that ends. In addition, your party members gain energy when this happens.

Some skills not mentioned:
"Stand Your Ground!"
For a motivation based:
Song of Restoration
Ballad of Restoration

There's a thread in this section that focuses on Motivation. Check that out.

LightningHell · Nov 15, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Mending Refrain is not going to save anyone.

45r on SYG, plus its nonexistent synergy with kiting, makes it undesirable.

Song of Restoration I personally dislike, but that's mainly because of the 15 recharge.

Shadowfox1125 · Nov 15, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Mending Refrain is not going to save anyone.

Meh, tell that to the high rank Guild teams that I've seen use it. I'm just listing some possibilities. Don't have to be so critical.

JoeKnowMo · Nov 15, 2006, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Mending Refrain is not going to save anyone....

....Song of Restoration I personally dislike, but that's mainly because of the 15 recharge.

In places where degen is common or in gvg's Mending Refrain is quite helpful. It doesn't have the e-degen effect of a regular Mending and can be applied to the whole team.

Song of Restoration is used by several good guilds. It's one of the better paragon elites in pve as well.

Carth` · Nov 15, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

It doesn't have the e-degen effect of a regular Mending and can be applied to the whole team.

If it cost 5 energy maybe it would be worth it.

Consider it from this point of view. If energy was not an issue, would you consider putting mending on everyone as a monk? I hope not (although I do see people do it in RA). I prefer Finale of Restoration, as for 5 energy, that person is getting a lot of healing every time a shout ends.

LightningHell · Nov 15, 2006, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

Meh, tell that to the high rank Guild teams that I've seen use it. I'm just listing some possibilities. Don't have to be so critical.

Heheh...well, top guilds have run pallyway before. It's just my opinion that Mending Refrain isn't going to save anyone. +3 regen isn't a lot against Rampage Thumpers and Searing Flames...

Thom Bangalter · Nov 15, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

mending refrain, in my opinion, was just a way to have a true echo mending.

Incoming! It's great vs a spike team in the right hands, and song of restoration is probably my favorite skill right now. Energizing finale is kind of 'meh' in pve, but in pvp it means everyone has prot spirit the second they need it, and instead of getting pressured you just wait around until vod or kill the other team before then. I've seen incoming chains, and while a good spike team can work around them, an adreno spike has a little more trouble.

Back to energizing finale: the thing that's really nasty about it is that it eliminates pressure builds for the most part. Generally pressure scores kills when the other team's monks are low/out of energy, but if you eliminate that by spamming watch yourself and keeping energizing finale up on your monks, well, you're golden. Which is why watching two paragon builds have each other is only interested when 1 of 2 conditions are met: VOD rolls around, or one team has gankers.

Also, ballad of restoration is pretty good.

Lightninghell seems to be more into the command line, I'm more of a motivation guy myself. They synergize extremely well if put together though, which is why dual paragon way is so strong.

Poison Ivy · Nov 15, 2006, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Mending Refrain could have it's uses when it comes to a degen hex enemy, and it could take a small amount of pressure, but it sure won't make it to my skillbar...

Spura · Nov 15, 2006, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

45r on SYG, plus its nonexistent synergy with kiting, makes it undesirable.

Adren spikes usually include a KD, you benefit from it.
When you stop kiting to cast, you benefit from it.
When Searing flames AoE hits character that aren;t kiting, they benefit from it.
In pve, if you kite, all heroes and hench start kiting too. So you are better off taking it in the face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Lightninghell seems to be more into the command line, I'm more of a motivation guy myself. They synergize extremely well if put together though, which is why dual paragon way is so strong.

Actually if you are smart you can have best of motivation and best of command on one character.

LightningHell · Nov 15, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Adren spikes usually include a KD, you benefit from it.
When you stop kiting to cast, you benefit from it.
When Searing flames AoE hits character that aren;t kiting, they benefit from it.
In pve, if you kite, all heroes and hench start kiting too. So you are better off taking it in the face.

I don't think he's talking about PvE here...

To your other points: Adren spikes are fine, but I'd pack in "WY!" instead of that.

I normally wouldn't stop kiting to cast unless it's absolutely omfg vital (such as putting a Reversal on yourself, or Blinding the warrior), until I've gone to a stage where the Warrior has to overextend to get me. I won't cast Heal Party right in the middle of two angry Warriors, thank you.

Searing Flames? Spread out.

Of course, it has a benefit, but it's not compared to empty skillslot, it's compared to whatever you'd have put in there.

crucifix · Nov 15, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

SYg... if you get kded, you arent moving. therefore, you benefit. its even a spike killer in that aspect. the + armor is to all, so if your monk has his ass on the ground, he benefits from the SYG.

LightningHell · Nov 16, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

All right then, what skill would you replace for SYG on a default Paragon build? I still can't justify bringing it on my paragon.

Zamochit · Nov 17, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I have been running with this in RA and it seems to work fairly well

Motivation 12 +1 +3
Leadership 7 + 1
Spear 8 +1
Rest in tactics

Signet of synergy
Mending refrain (10e 8 sec recharge)
Watch yourself (4a)
Energising chorus (4a)
Aria of zeal (10e 20 sec recharge)
Ballad of restoration (10e 20 sec recharge)
Song of Restoration {E}(5e 15 sec recharge)

It is an entirely supportive build, but quite fun to play. At 16 motivation mending refrain gives 4 pip regen, it echos with continued use of watch yourself and you can very quickly apply it to the whole team, true this isnt great but it will counteract degen from either poison or bleeding entirely and if someone is hit by both the degen is still more than manageable. This will remove a lot of presssure from any monk you are fortunate enough to have on your team. Obviously watch yourself is a great armour and energy boost but if you find yourself high on adrenaline but low on energy then energising chorus will give you better energy management (+4e for the shout and negate 7e of the cost of your next shout/chant).

Obviously you are entirely reliant on others to do the damage, and the heals and energy boosts you provide are conditional, but they are unstrippable, which is always a good thing.