Curse

Kryopsis · Nov 17, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Having recently started playing as the Paragon, I have a question. How viable would be a melee (Swordsmanship) Paragon/Warrior build?
This would be an 'egocentric' paragon as the primary concern of the build is to keep itself alive.

So without further ado, the prototype build:

9 Swordsmanship
10+1 Motivation
11+1 Leadership

Hundred Blades
Final Thrust
Watch Yourself
"Go For The Eyes"
Finale of Restoration
Blazing Finale
"They're On Fire"
Signet of Return

Please post your comments. Also it is likely that other people thought of it before but search didn't reveal much.

uepilot · Nov 17, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

PLEASE ADD ME IN THE GAME! MY CHARACTER'S NAME IS "Paragon of Cthulu"

This idea has always interested me. I use an axe with my paragon. True it is more powerful and a bit more effective then normal.... But you can't go past that.... If you wanted to make your Paragon more powerful, you would only be using warrior skills and no paragon skills which makes it obselete due to the lack of strenght. Here's the build that I use:

1. Cleave {E}
2. Dismember
3. Cyclone Axe (OPTIONAL)
4. Critical Chop (OPTIONAL)
5. "Watch Yourself!"
6. Mending Refrain
7. Leader's Comfort
8. Anthem of Flame

Axe Mastery: 12
Modivation: 9 (Plus rune or helmet if necessary)
Leadership: 9 (Plus rune or helmet if necessary)

I chose axe, because even thought it is 1 handed, it is more powerful then hammer, and the best warrior class. I've found this to be good in PvE. I know this is a very iffy build, and I'm still toying with it. The trick is to find the correct balance between your paragon side and your warrior side.

TadaceAce · Nov 17, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

its viable, I thought it was alright. I used axe as well
Triple Chop
Cyclone Axe
Anthem of Flame
Blazing Finale
Watch Yourself
Go For the Eyes!
They're on fire!
Agressive Refrain

stueyman2099 · Nov 17, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Explain why this is better than a W/P.

Kryopsis · Nov 17, 2006, 03:23 AM // 03:23

The Paragon has 30 energy, as opposed to 20 the Warrior has.
The build relies on 2 Paragon attributes and 5 skils against 1 Warrior attribute and 3 skills.
A W/P will not have the energy required for this build, not to mention have weaker shouts.

clawofcrimson · Nov 17, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I have been using a p/w for a while now... simply because I am lazy and can play the warrior well. Paras are made for team play though... so this works well with a team of hech. but other than that... I think live players would frown on a melee para. less damage less armour is not desireable for melee.

but i LOVE the way my para holds the long sword straight up in the air...lol maybe ill post a pic.

LightningHell · Nov 18, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

I'd like to know how 9 Swordsmanship makes you a better Warrior.

Darkpower Alchemist · Nov 18, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

The desireable stats of a warrior are always 16 in the prefered weapon of choice. Why does a Paragon have to not have his spear?

I know the thought of wielding a sword/axe seems interesting, but the fact is that without a minimum of 12 in any weapon proficiency, you are not bringing even your B game to a fight.

If you realize the place of the Paragon in a battle situation, then you will know its true purpose.Paragons are field commanders, warriors are soldiers in the Paragon's army. Grunts take a beating, while field commanders take the glory.A paragon wiith a sword may fly in Pve, my friend, but in PvP, you will not get a warm reception.

Except it now.

Also,a warrior in Gladiator's armor has 27 mana points.The only advantage is Leadership,where they don't have strength, giving them less bite to there weapon attacks. More energy or more attack power? What would you want from your melee characters?

Answer that and you will know if the sword is mighter than the spear.

Riotgear · Nov 18, 2006, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Aggressive Refrain has a lot of potential to be leveraged for unlimited IAS. Awe seems potentially nasty with a hammer build.

For the former, the more important of the two, the only problem is maintaining it. You COULD do it with another paragon in the group, but right now, there is no spammable energy-based shout, meaning the only options for doing it solo are adrenaline-based shouts (which kind of defeats the purpose) or chants (which will let people kite the crap out of you).

It's not conceptually that different from a thumper. If Rampage gets nerfed, it may even be viable.

As for why not use a spear, warrior skills tend to have more utility (especially in the ability to easily create DW, and hammer's ability to knockdown), and spears are not particularly hard to avoid.

LightningHell · Nov 18, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

The problem isn't with the sword. The sword is fine. All weapons are fine.

I think this question phrases my thinking best:

What does this do that a Warrior can't do/do better?
What does this do that a Paragon can't do/do better?

I can see that you're trying to integrate shouts with a Warrior, which is creative, but I don't see why doing both at the same time, reducing your overall effectiveness. I can understand if you're soloing and need to heal yourself and do damage at the same time, but I assume this is for a team build as it does not resemble anything like a solo build, nor does it have any skills that help your survival.

Kryopsis · Nov 18, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Contrary to what you guys believe, this build wasn't intended to replace the warrior primary nor is a PVP build (not a PVP player).
I was looking for ways to build up adren quicker. Thought going melee would help it and perhaps even turn this into a farmable build.
Based on the average reception of this idea (I imagine shouting blashermies in a full church on sunday would yield similar responces to what I've gotten so far), looks like it wasn't a blazing idea, eh?

Loki Seiguro · Nov 18, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

nice build ill bookkmark this and use it later after i finshing somw work here lol. I have a P/W but wasnt htinking about using it for melee yet...i was thinking paragon has shots and warrior has shots too so why not combine them?

so yeah lol

Spura · Nov 20, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The problem isn't with the sword. The sword is fine. All weapons are fine.

I think this question phrases my thinking best:

What does this do that a Warrior can't do/do better?
What does this do that a Paragon can't do/do better?

I can see that you're trying to integrate shouts with a Warrior, which is creative, but I don't see why doing both at the same time, reducing your overall effectiveness. I can understand if you're soloing and need to heal yourself and do damage at the same time, but I assume this is for a team build as it does not resemble anything like a solo build, nor does it have any skills that help your survival.

It's a pve build obviously. And it works pretty well IMO.
Advantages of P/W over W/P are numerous. Leadership allows you the Blazing Finale + "They're on gfire combo" which is extremely powerful in pve and always on IAS with Aggressive refrain. Sword allows for a fast attack speed and also ensures you are in melee range of the opponent, which you need to be in range for blazing finale to work. Throw in Focused anger and "Gfte" and you have 14 DPS in adjacent aoe from burning alone + damage reduction from "They're on fire"(which also helps team if the guys you are burning are ranged and are targeting your squishies), you have 25% IAS with medium spec swordsmanship which combined with said burning will do just as much DPS as 16 sword if not more. Also with "GftE" every 2 sec(with focused anger and IAS), you are adding damage to all attackers on your team, especially minions.

clawofcrimson · Nov 20, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

It really doesnt matter in PVE.... do what is fun to you... its a game... have fun. (just please dont expect warm receptions when joining a human group)
...like a monk who wants to do damage rather than heal.

Even though I play a melee para with henchis... I wouldnt want one on my team.

I use bleeding+burning+deep wound... in my build... which is a nice degen... and I always take a ranger with infuriating heat... spammin watch yo self like a mad dog...its fun

JoeKnowMo · Nov 20, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I think this question phrases my thinking best:

What does this do that a Warrior can't do/do better?
What does this do that a Paragon can't do/do better?

U serious???

Check out what Spura said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Advantages of P/W over W/P are numerous. Leadership allows you the Blazing Finale + "They're on gfire combo" which is extremely powerful in pve and always on IAS with Aggressive refrain. Sword allows for a fast attack speed and also ensures you are in melee range of the opponent, which you need to be in range for blazing finale to work. Throw in Focused anger and "Gfte" and you have 14 DPS in adjacent aoe from burning alone + damage reduction from "They're on fire"(which also helps team if the guys you are burning are ranged and are targeting your squishies), you have 25% IAS with medium spec swordsmanship which combined with said burning will do just as much DPS as 16 sword if not more. Also with "GftE" every 2 sec(with focused anger and IAS), you are adding damage to all attackers on your team, especially minions.

If you go with the triple chop/cyclone axe build, you will build up adrenaline fast and have enough energy coming in from adren shouts to keep spamming those attacks. A P/W will do as much or more DPS and won't have energy problems spamming attacks.

The tank of old holding all aggro isn't worth as much any longer due to the AI changes.

'Nuff said.

Silk Weaver · Nov 21, 2006, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Why don't you just use a spear at point blank range? You'll probably do more damage that way.

Barbed, Spear of Lightning, Disrupting Throw, Wild Throw maybe? Yay. Bring an IAS and you're set in your way to be a sub optimal player that's still twice as good as a sword paragon.

I mean, a thumper is good becuase it synergizes with the warrior class, whereas this doesn't really. I mean, what do the shouts add to the warrior class specifically? Go For the Eyes?

You can do all of the above with a Paragon, you know? If you do it for the adrenaline, then why don't you use daggers, they attack faster on average.

clawofcrimson · Nov 21, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

my promised pic

JoeKnowMo · Nov 21, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

Why don't you just use a spear at point blank range? You'll probably do more damage that way.

Barbed, Spear of Lightning, Disrupting Throw, Wild Throw maybe? Yay. Bring an IAS and you're set in your way to be a sub optimal player that's still twice as good as a sword paragon.

I mean, a thumper is good becuase it synergizes with the warrior class, whereas this doesn't really. I mean, what do the shouts add to the warrior class specifically? Go For the Eyes?

You can do all of the above with a Paragon, you know? If you do it for the adrenaline, then why don't you use daggers, they attack faster on average.

Spear hits one enemy, cyclone axe/triple chop hit multiple foes.

A melee weapon keeps you close to foes so that when you trigger GFTE, blazing finale sets those adjacent to you on fire. Doesn't work the same way with a spear.

Daggers have a low crit and only hit one foe.

If you factor in the almost constant 14 DPS from fire and cyclone axe/triple chop, Tadace's build does a lot more dps (also to multiple foes) than the spear build you propose.

If you go with Finale of Restoration instead of blazing finale that's a pretty long period of consistent healing w/o having to stop and heal.

GFTE is in (yah, u musta guessed it by now) to trigger finales often.

pingu666 · Nov 22, 2006, 12:17 AM // 00:17

ud build adrenaline quicker cos u get whacked in the face much more...

my male para looks really silly with a axe/sword...

Zinger314 · Nov 22, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Triple Chop + Cyclone Axe > Hundred Blade + Final Thrust