Curse

Akane · Nov 23, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

After having some fun with the paragon, I am convinced someone in Arenanet really wanted to see this character shine. I think they look the coolest out of all the chars, have some AMAZING skills, that any party would love, great and easy energy management (i.e. spam W tactics "watch yourself"), have armor matched with wars and good health to boot.

Definitely the easiest go for legendary survivor.

And did anyone notice how fast the top guilds put a P/W in all their builds? They are so juiced! add one motivation and one command P/W and your party is stacked!

unholy guardian · Nov 23, 2006, 01:02 AM // 01:02

yeah, paragon i would defiantly say is waaaay up there in great classes that you don't "need" one in a lot of pve groups, but it makes your life so much easier with one. Great in pvp as well.

Servant of Kali · Nov 23, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

..mm... you mean, ANet nerfed all other e-gain skills, then put the overpowered Energizing Finale, and now everyone uses that? Yea.. not much to do with Paragon being godly.

btw it's easier to get survivor with Dervish IMO, if you know how to play one.
Dervish is overpowered in PvE IMO, as well as random PvP like RA. I'd take it over Paragon any day

Even though, Paragon is good too and has fun skills as well, but it still doesnt match what well-built Dervish can do.

I dont have Paragon in PvE cause ANet changed face styles after beta events. Now, i dont like any in particular.

wilebill · Nov 23, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Just getting my Paragon to 20, but so far I don't like the armor. I do like the armor a lot for my Dervish, though.

In spite of armor that looks like something that ought to be worn by a deranged elf, the Paragon is excellent and a lot of fun to play.

It seems to be that in terms of chapters, Dervish is to Assassin as Paragon is to Ritualist.

Is there anyone who has played a Ritualist and a Paragon who can offer an opinion as to their comparative effectiveness in group support?

Some Guru Named Kai · Nov 23, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I don't think you can really compare paragon and rits side by side.. seeing as one uses chants, and the other uses spirits (spirits are physically there). Even though both are support, they support in a different way.

But I could be missing something that makes them on the same level.

Khaunshar · Nov 23, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

All fine and well, but I promise you ll see a hefty nerf to the paragon support abilities that currently make some of the near-invincible teams possible.

Its the same as with Ritual Lord in its time.... an expansion class that utterly dominates the whole defensive game isnt something PvP players will like for long, and it will be nerfed to be brought more in line with core classes, where upon people switch back to the 3 monk backline most likely.

At least thats the way it has happened before already.

random.name · Nov 23, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I think there is alot of similarities between rit and paragon. Both are support, and both makes awesome offensive and defensive support.

The Mad Man · Nov 23, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

They do seem similar. They also share the ability to play multiple roles- Ive used different forms of both support and spiking builds in both classes that make them flexible and ideal for almost any situation

Thom Bangalter · Nov 23, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

I've played paragons and ritualists extensively, so I'll note their differences. For discussion purposes, I'll ignore energizing finale which makes the profession borderline imbalanced.

Motivation paragons and the old spirit spamming ritualists are similar in what they try to do, which is provide party wide protection. However, paragons are far better at it. There were a couple of problems with ritualists: one, they were limited to union, shelter, and displacement, with a few other random things thrown in (and builds were entirely dictated by ritual lord and boon of creation to actual keep themselves going). Paragons, due to leadership, do not require a specific elite to sustain themselves--their best skill is energizing finale, a non-elite that can be kept up on your monks indefinetly. Because of that, their elite slot is opened, alowing you to run a versatile, flexible bar. Hence expel hexes paragons in HA, and incoming! in GVG. They have other strong skills such as song of restoration as well for elites.

Ritualists also set the pace of the battle. Since their spirits are not stationary, parties are required to stay in range to reap the benefits. while not entirely problematic in HA, due to the small maps, in GVG it generally meant you'd have long, dragged out battles at the flagstand. They also did nothing else for you. You'd have a partywide prot spirit and aegis up that was refreshed over and over, but that's all you got. Paragons actually have skills that are worthwhile. Wild Throw is arguably their best spear attacks, because it has no drawback and is ranged, and has an incredibly useful effect. It can also be put on any paragon bar. It's indicitive of many of their skills: stuff that's actually useful.

Due to their armor they can actually stand between your front and midline without fear of them insta-dying, which is another advantage they have over the ritualist.

They also have less counters. A fire elementalist is going to really screw a poorly played ritualist, because his buffs are something you can actually see and destroy simply by attacking them. Paragons, on the other hand, have one skill that shuts them down, and unless played in a heavy hex build is of little to no consequence, as it will be removed almost immediately.

Shouts also have an advantage of the ritualists' other form of party support, the weapon skills. Shouts can be stacked, and both their effects and durations are stronger than merely a guardian and some regen, or an auto-crit for one person.

Then, of course, you have the command and spearmastery lines. Spearmastery isn't actually awesome, but has more uses than channelling because of a couple nice deep wound skills, a couple ok condition skills, and the aforementioned wild throw.

Someone did the math, and Find Their Weakness! is actually better than order of pain, and when combined with Go For the Eyes! means you can score a deep wound just by auto-attacking.

I disagree with the ritualists=paragon, sins=dervish analogy, because it's really too simplistic because honestly, both of these new professions outshine factions's obsolete spirit spammer and their "I'm only good at ganking NPCs In GVG" class.

Kryopsis · Nov 23, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I'd have to agree with Thom,
I am, or rather was, a big fan of the ritualist but the Paragon is simply better at everything. I am currently NPC'ing through the Nightfall missions with a Spear Mastery paragon and he is definitly superior to a Channeling Ritualist. As far as support is concerned, the Paragon's shouts are more flexible, more powerful and harder to deal with than the spirits, not to mention that Leadership is close to being the best energy menagement ability of the game.

Xpl0iter · Nov 24, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

people love em like they once loved ele at the beginning of prophicies. Give it sometime guys. just give it sometime. Anet will tone em down, like always.

vancha · Nov 24, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

I agree with Thom, although the paragons armor is ugly imo. Too much nipples...
But shouts are the most overpowered version of skills, since there are few ways to remove one (actually, there is only some ways to shorten them, not remove.)

Carth` · Nov 24, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xpl0iter

people love em like they once loved ele at the beginning of prophicies. Give it sometime guys. just give it sometime. Anet will tone em down, like always.

Another AoE nerf...? your allies run out of earshot range when you use too many shouts

Servant of Kali · Nov 24, 2006, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Well, i played Rt a LOT, and Paragon only a bit. In PvE it's still good. But then again, lots of bad skills work in PvE; for instance, you can finish the game with Mending quite easily which says enough of the difficulty of PvE. You dont need good skills to finish PvE, you can use randomized skillbar.

With all the changes Rt is kinda obsolete in GvG (which means, PvP). Yes, i played Rt's in GvG before and they were cool (this was after RLord nerf and before NF). Now, with Paragon, i honestly dont see why someone would waste time with annoying spirit AI (which is bugged from time to time, and can be exploited if you know how). Paragons have some overpowered skills while most good Rt skills require a spirit.. which.. guess what, you'll sometimes have a problem keeping alive, especially with all fire eles around.

How good Paragon is compared to Rt you can see in GvGs (outside top50, because those in top50 might compete for championship n rules forbid non-core and NF skills). Now, lots of teams seem to have a Paragon. Rt? Now, how many Rt's have you seen in GvG last 2 months? Exactly. Now, with Nightfall, and Paragon, there's like very little reason to run Rt.

No one in ANet seems to play Rt's so it's unlikely there will be any worthwile buffs. ANet thinks everything is ok with Rt class just that people dont like it. They dont understand that people dont like it because it doesnt work as good as other skills/classes.

Xpl0iter · Nov 25, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

Another AoE nerf...? your allies run out of earshot range when you use too many shouts

lol allies running out of range.
Nah, more like tonned down. ^_^

jimmyboveto · Nov 26, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Ok, so i would have to agree that paragons are a godly class. I love their armor, their skills, and basically everything about them. Now every1 in this thread has just been talking about how great of support class they are, which don't get me wrong, i also believe they are an awesome support class. However, a paragon is capable of more then just support. They can do some of the best 1-target damage in the game, which is what I have a lot of fun with.

Here is an example of a spear build that I love to use
---------------------------------------------------
Spear of Lightning
Blazing Throw
Wild Throw
Cruel Spear(E)
Natural Temper
Agressive Refrain
Watch Yourself
--free space--(rez sig or whatever)

So basically i believe that what makes the paragon so great is their versatility. They can support the team defensively, offensively, or hold their own with a spear!

Carl Butanananowski · Nov 26, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Paragons will eventually be nerfed, somehow. ANet will think of some sort of hex or whatever that removes shouts..

Demoralize
Mesmer
Energy:5
Ct:1
R:25
Spell. Target foe loses 1..3 shouts, chants, or echos.

You get it.

clawofcrimson · Dec 12, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

vocal minority... and well of silence to name a few

lyra_song · Dec 12, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

vocal minority... and well of silence to name a few

Vocal Minority - Hex, removable.

Well of silence - requires a corpse, requires Paragon to STAND in the well.

Roaring Winds - Dies quickly.

Ulcerous Lungs - hex, removable.

At the end of the day, Hexes suck when we have this:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Expel_Hexes

moko · Dec 12, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

or that http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Divert_Hexes

<3