Curse

Qual · Nov 07, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Paragons got the best looking armor, and are very fun too play. I agree in some of your points but still I think you are kinda lame. No hard feelings.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 07, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

I wasnt too keen on the Paragon to begin with but i began to like it and now i love it as much as the other types. Its a great team supporter with some cool looking armour and some very handy skills.

Solarii · Nov 07, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilious Ahruhk

3. Due to the above two points, there are 2-3 -good- builds to use in PvE, with minor variations. Anthem of Flame, "Go for the Eyes!", Aggressive refrain. You will always see at least 1 of these, if not all 3.

Do these many skills I see as so very pointless actually have a use in PvE?

I'm sorry, but by that logic almost every class falls into the same category. Are you saying because necros usually only use a MM or SS build they are useless in PvE? Or Rangers that don't use a cripshot or interrupt build are useless? They're brand new! Give it a little more time before condemning Paragons.

Keilious Ahruhk · Nov 08, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solarii

I'm sorry, but by that logic almost every class falls into the same category. Are you saying because necros usually only use a MM or SS build they are useless in PvE? Or Rangers that don't use a cripshot or interrupt build are useless? They're brand new! Give it a little more time before condemning Paragons.

Err, but with a necro you can use secondary classes for a wide variety of builds, whether it be a BiP necro, or a clumsiness/ineptitude curses necro, or even a sword-swingin' Spinal Shivers necro.

Now, how about you give me an effective build for a P/E? Or a P/Rt? Even a P/D?

I'm not saying that paragons USUALLY use one of just a few builds, I'm saying you're confined to those few builds because most paragon skills suck in PvE, and secondary classes don't synergise with a paragon with the exception of Warrior. :/

Hella Good · Nov 08, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Paragon and Rit have great synergy. Combining the two is sure to produce some nice results in a PvE environment. And in PvP for that matter.

Ps have the power to deal damage, provide party-wide support (including e-management), and pressure. That's gotta count as something in PvE... If you need to augment any of these abilities just borrow from your 2ndary. I think Ps are facing a much better fate than Sins ever did in PvE.

lyra_song · Nov 08, 2006, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Its not a core class, you wont have as much variety in builds.

Get over it.

Desires · Nov 08, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

I can't belive people think paragons are weak even in pve. First in pvp their just godly:
eg.
protect monk+rit+steroids=paragons

Icoming has to be my fav skill in the game even though I never played a paragon. But seriously 7 seconds of 50% damage reduction(which applies to things such as SS aswell) is very powerful. If you got a Para who knows when to use it you can migate a hell of alot of damage. I'm still waiting for the triple chain "incoming" builds.

In PVE I almost never level home without my paragon hero. Incoming,Stand your ground,Their on fire(while running a searing flames or two) and you'll be taking very little damage.

Sasuke The Betrayer · Nov 08, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

I enjoy the Paragon combination of Soldier's Fury + Watch Yourself, especially after Tiger's Fury nerf

Soldiders Fury + Watch Yourself=
Constant +5 energy (If watch yourself is constantly used)
33% Damage Speed
+20 Armor

Yay :O?

Keilious Ahruhk · Nov 08, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Its not a core class, you wont have as much variety in builds.

Get over it.

There are many elites in the game, and skill points are meant to be hard to come by.

Get over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desires

I can't belive people think paragons are weak even in pve. First in pvp their just godly:
eg.
protect monk+rit+steroids=paragons

Icoming has to be my fav skill in the game even though I never played a paragon. But seriously 7 seconds of 50% damage reduction(which applies to things such as SS aswell) is very powerful. If you got a Para who knows when to use it you can migate a hell of alot of damage. I'm still waiting for the triple chain "incoming" builds.

In PVE I almost never level home without my paragon hero. Incoming,Stand your ground,Their on fire(while running a searing flames or two) and you'll be taking very little damage.

This is really beginning to become a pain, READ THE DAMN THREAD BEFORE YOU POST.

I'm not complaining that Paragons are weak in PvP OR PvE, I'm saying that in PvE there is a lack of variety of builds available due to the fact that no skills synergise with anything except for warrior tactics and Vocal was Sologon.

As for what Sasuke was saying, see my point? You either take warrior as a worthy secondary or... Ranger, possibly, if you're daring, but that's IT.

Silk Weaver · Nov 08, 2006, 10:54 AM // 10:54

"I agree in some of your points but still I think you are kinda lame. No hard feelings."

Best post evar!

I must admit that I haven't touched paragons at all, and if I did, I simply stuck all the best skills, those noted in your first post, onto Morgan, and then allowed him to spam lightning spear, barbed spear, and disrupting spear, etc.

A few comments... what nerf? Touch rangers? They are as good/lame as they were before. Cripshots still own them without breaking a sweat, but they haven't been nerfed. Who said Can't Touch This is for touch rangers? What the hell got that into your head? The skill's meant, aside from the hammertime, to stop skills like blackout and shock. For a toucher, Can't Touch can be disabled with 4 swift presses on the Plague Touch button, so really now.

Now what I can say about paragons are that spears are dissapointing. Aside from the strange armor ignoring spear of lightning, I can say that using an R/P, which would, theoretically work like a cripshot, interrupting, spreading lots of degen, and cover up daze... does not work. My bar during the event was somewhat like:

Lightning Spear, Barbed Spear, Disrupting Throw, Stunning Throw, Wild Throw, Apply Poison, Troll Unguent, Rez Sig.

It's the arc, you can't interupt anything 1 second long unless you're next to them or extremely lucky, and the spears fly everywhere too. It's to the point where you can dodge them without trying very hard. We did a 6 paragon team at GvG at one point, and although we did win eventually, the spears were everywhere. Attempts at spiking failed. Okay, so you stun the two monks, and some more, then some guys sets up Wild Throw, someone Deep Wounds, and everyone spams LS+Disrupting to spike, and they die, right? No. Ugh. They are better used as melee weapons than ranged.

I mean I know it's a great class and everyone uses it now, but I've grown a loathing for it that will probably never go away.

Hella Good · Nov 08, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I like the Rt/P combo with Spirit's Str/Sight Beyond Sight. Wep armor and Vital Wep. Spears and Communing/Motivation/Command. It's pretty neat. Or P/Rt with Wep of Fury. It's nice high damage combos.

Keilious Ahruhk · Nov 08, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Weaver

A few comments... what nerf? Touch rangers? They are as good/lame as they were before. Cripshots still own them without breaking a sweat, but they haven't been nerfed. Who said Can't Touch This is for touch rangers? What the hell got that into your head? The skill's meant, aside from the hammertime, to stop skills like blackout and shock. For a toucher, Can't Touch can be disabled with 4 swift presses on the Plague Touch button, so really now.

No, "Can't Touch this!" initially affected all allies, rather than just yourself, try to think back a little before going on the war path.

JoeKnowMo · Nov 08, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilious Ahruhk

Err, but with a necro you can use secondary classes for a wide variety of builds, whether it be a BiP necro, or a clumsiness/ineptitude curses necro, or even a sword-swingin' Spinal Shivers necro.

BiP is not from a secondary class, clumsiness/ineptitude is less effective than a SS/reckless haste build, and spinal shivers is fine if all you want to do is interrupt but again has nothing to do with a secondary profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilious Ahruhk

Now, how about you give me an effective build for a P/E? Or a P/Rt? Even a P/D?

Ok, here goes:

P/Mo: Angelic bonder w Balth spirit on urself. Prevents instant death from e-surge/searing flames mobs.

P/E: Mark of Rodgort spammer (see below).

P/Rt: Offensive spirits w anthem of flame and anthem of envy.

P/Rt: Defensive spirits w angelic bond on the spirits and teammates to prevent spikes.

P/D: Use scythe skills, put burning finale on yourself and spam GFTE.

P/N: Use a staff, raise bone minions and put burning refrain on them and energizing finale on urself.

P/N: Use it's just a flesh wound with plague sending.

P/R: Spam barrage and GFTE. No energy problems. Use energizing finale if needed.

Not a bad list for a prof that's only been out for a week and a half.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilious Ahruhk

I'm not saying that paragons USUALLY use one of just a few builds, I'm saying you're confined to those few builds because most paragon skills suck in PvE, and secondary classes don't synergise with a paragon with the exception of Warrior. :/

If you make a Skill list like yours of any profession, you will conclude that only a few skills are really great in pve and the rest are so-so to bad. How many different "good" monk or warrior or mesmer or ele or necro or rit or ranger builds are there in pve? Very few.

Sure, paragons have a limited number of builds, but certainly not more limited than any other profession.

You seem to think that paragons have "synergy" only w warriors but not other professions. What synergy do monks have w secondary professions in pve? None, except for mesmer for boon prot. What about warriors? Little synergy w rangers, and that's pretty much it, unless you think mending is great ;P. The same goes for the rest of the professions. For example, fast-cast nukers and fast-cast healers are sub-par in pve. Maybe if you could give a few examples of this "synergy" that paragons lack (and that u insinuate that other classes have) we could respond better.

Where paragons shine is in their synergy w the rest of their team. For example, you can run a 4-man paragon based build w heroes (using finale of restoration and spamming GFTE) and kill almost any mobs in NF. You can also put Searing Flames on both ur ele heroes and keep their energy up so they can spam it.

Another great build w my heroes is an MM w fiends and horrors, 2 barrage rangers w GFTE or any adrenaline chant/shout, and my paragon w mark of rodgort, energizing finale, anthem of flame, burning finale, burning refrain (for horrors), and they're on fire. One of the rangers brings conflagaration and voila everything's on fire (since minions don't focus fire).

If you're "disappointed" w paragons then I really don't see how you could be happy w any other profession.

Silk Weaver · Nov 09, 2006, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilious Ahruhk

No, "Can't Touch this!" initially affected all allies, rather than just yourself, try to think back a little before going on the war path.

That's not the issue, since plague touch will still stop it. Of course, if you're saying that the ranger will be changing targets... I don't think Touch Rangers involve that much tactics, honestly. Not saying it won't help against a toucher, but it's not a "counter". Can't Touch This isn't geared towards touch rangers, that's all-- think about how much more disruptive it would be against a team with shock and blackout. For a touch ranger, 8 energy and it's gone, and that's assuming level 12. And how exactly has touch rangers been nerfed? I don't think it has ever been a dangerous or imbalanced enough build that Anet cared about nerfing it.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 09, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

You can run any build you want, but it's hard for any profession to run an optimized build properly. These skill combinations have already been proven to be very effective, and that's why it's run. You can run a paragon with empathy (I saw someone advertising that's what they had) but you know what? that's dumb.

ramma77 · Nov 09, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

i love my paragon.

equipping my heroes with certain skills means i have constant 25% attack speed, constant 3 health regen, a %48 chance to critical every 2-3 seconds, and when they do critical it's a deep wound for 14 seconds and once koss gets into the mix all adjacent foes are burning non-stop until they die.

DarkZeal · Nov 09, 2006, 03:20 PM // 15:20

I have to agree that apart from looking kinda cool. Paragon are subpar in PVE and probabaly PVP.

Dahl · Nov 09, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keilious Ahruhk

Okai, the first time I tried to type this up IE random refreshed the page and deleted everything, so this'll be a brief version.

1. The skills of a paragon are designed with extreme environments in mind, ie. where an entire team is built around them, making alot -most- of them useless in PvE.

2. Only one other class has skills that really synergise with a paragon, warrior (and one useless ritualist skill, woot). This is a problem because we have a very limited number of skills on the base class itself anyway. :/

3. Due to the above two points, there are 2-3 -good- builds to use in PvE, with minor variations. Anthem of Flame, "Go for the Eyes!", Aggressive refrain. You will always see at least 1 of these, if not all 3.

4. All the armour looks the damn same, and terribly girly with the exception of Vabbian, but that's a different matter.

This is only because the Paragon hasn't been around long enough for people to discover builds. I use a paragon in pve and I don't use those skills and I'm immensely effective. A monk + my paragon is twice as effective at keeping the team alive as 2 monks. I won't release my build though because I don't want it turned into the cookie cutter healagon build like boon prot.

Try NOT using other peoples builds, and make your own. Use your OWN brain.

Also, yes the armor is kinda bad, and the headgear is even worse. They should have created centurion style roman helms instead and armor that covers the whole body.. For this reason I've went with Elonian Armor which does cover the body, but it's the only kind that really does.

**EDIT**

Oh, and I forgot to mention, my paragon doesn't go below 1/2 energy. EVER. Nor do I even use any energy gain skills. So denial isn't an issue. I can always continue doing my job no matter the pressure.

SirShadowrunner · Nov 09, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Paragons are great, who else can sit in the middle of the action getting hit and not
take to much damage and give out almost endless support, nobody that's who, j/k
I'm sure they are there.

With 80 armor and healing and energy support galore, hard to go wrong with, as
far as a variety of builds, like someone said, the game has not even been out 2 weeks
yet, give it a rest.

In the meantime, I am runniing P/Me, put in signet of cluminess and cluminess,
or go with inspiration skills and use power drain and enchantment removal for
good interupting and energy recovery.

I still want to try out some staff or wand/offhands for more energy and try some
different mesmer skills, but am wondering how much damage I will take giving
up my shield, anyone mess around with this yet ???

thx.....

Carney_Folk · Nov 09, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I love my paragon. I am not a good person to comment here i am sure, i have only had GW for about 2 weeks. But the most important thing is, i have tons of fun while playing the class. I am very effective in PVE with my heals and dmg absorb. I want to get into pvp but i am a bit intimidated right now since i am still trying to figure out all the controls and the class completely. I am a veteran of more then a few mmorpg's and i can say that the paragon is one of the most interesting / fun classes i have played. (Except my friar in DAoC, loved that character). Ultimately the paragon is a very solid class, it will just take a bit to figure out the potential combo's with the other secondary classes.

Just my 2 cents.