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Old May 08, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08   #1
Desert Nomad
 
clawofcrimson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Guild: Crimson Claw
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Default Paragon Skills evaluated.

Redirected from the 'basic' thread for more in-depth skill discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meneer123
I have problems with my Paragon. I have a hard time to make a decent build and give him its place in a PvE situation. Therefore I wrote a "small" summary for myself on the forum of my guild. I had been thinking of posting it here already until I saw this post, so I now will add it here. I hope you feel this is not as hijacking your topic, but as a nice addition.

Small disclaimer
I want to point out that I might not really be regarded as a 100% pro although I have quite some experience. Also these are more my personal opinions and will certainly not be supported by all Paragon players. Most stuff here is on PvE grounds not on PvP!!



Command

[skill]"Brace Yourself!"[/skill] (one star on scale of 5)
Knock-down prevention which can't be removed. Damage it deals is an extra, but not really useful. A bit odd that the damage is to a random nearby foe and not the foe who causes the knock-down. You can keep it up on a target indefinitely if command is high enough. I suppose it can be useful to put on a monk in a knock-down heavy area, but over-all it has limited use.

[skill]"Can't Touch This!"[/skill] (no stars)
Apart from its cool name it has very limited use. Designed as an anti-toucher skill which wasn't really needed. Touch skill instant recharge on using it on a target which has this shout own, but it does drain the touchers energy that way. Only works on yourself. If it would have disabled the touch skill for an additional 20 sec or so, it might have been useful. In PvE specifically only one or two of those dragons and scarabs use touch skills, so utterly useless.

[skill]"Fall Back!"[/skill]
First nice skill in the Command line. Gives health and speed boost while kiting or running, nice when some casters are getting beaten on severely. Also nice for between battles to run from one to the other to speed things up a bit. Additionally it has a very cool animation as a nice little bonus. Although it might not be a primary skill for your bar, it is very nice to have. When you have a MM in your party however this skill is great, because it also works on minions. Cast it before entering battle, so minions charge in faster while getting a health boost. During the fight it is useless for minions because it will end almost directly due to attacking. Energy cost is a bit high in my opinion, 10 would have been better, but that is for PvP balance reasons.

[skill]"Find Their Weakness!"[/skill]
I find this skill hard to judge, it can be very useful to cast on an Assassin for example which didn't took a DW skill himself or on a [skill=text]Barrage[/skill] user. Mind though that only one target gets a DW from a Barrager and not multiple. This skill nicely combines with "Go for the Eyes!" to increase the change of a critical hit. Downsides are that it isn't party wide but only for a specific target and there are better ways to apply DW: with a normal attack skill.

[skill]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill]
One of the best skills of the Paragon. Don't mistake it by using it as a pure DPS (damage per second) increase, because that extra critical is really not going to make a huge difference in PvE. Its main use is energy management in converting adrenaline into energy. The increased critical chance should be regarded as a nice bonus in most cases, except when skills which require a critical to do extra functionality like: [skill=text]keen arrow[/skill], [skill=text]"Find Their Weakness!"[/skill] and [skill=text]Vicious Attack[/skill] etc are used in the party.

[skill]"Help Me!"[/skill]
Useless: what did Anet had in mind with this skill, I think nobody knows. It only works on yourself so you can't use it on an ally who is getting heavy pressure, so that monk spells can be cast faster on him. Only minor use I can see is, if a smiter is smiting of you using [skill=text]Zealot's fire[/skill], but in those situations it is not the casting time which is the limiting factor but recharge time of the skills and energy.

[skill]"Incoming!"[/skill]
This skill was nice before Anet nerved it for PvP reasons. For PvE the duration is too short and the recharge time too long, it can be helpful against some strong bosses though (think Ele's, Rits and Shiro maybe). It is not useless: would it have been a non-elite I probably should have given it even 3 stars, but now it is rather a waste of your elite skill in most cases.

[skill]"Make Haste!"[/skill]
Can help out a player which is getting beaten on, helps a warrior to charge in or a player not hurrying enough to the next battle. Can't see it as a must have. Dual run and boost for player in AB, Fort Aspenwood might come in mind, but better just let them get their own running skill. Might be fun to spam around to have a laugh, but for the rest no real use.

[skill]"Never Give Up!"[/skill]
Nice when a battle is of long duration, mainly to help out monks against party wide pressure or to give that energy to squish out that last bit of damage to turn the battle. The energy gain is nice when command is high enough, but not really mind blasting. It is not easy to use, the below 75% health is rather limiting.

[skill]"Never Surrender!"[/skill]
Same as for the last shout really, anti-pressure skill. 3 or 4 pips of added health regen or reduced degen can be nice to help out, but again it is not mind blasting. Personally I rather use this one than the one above (at a decent level of command) if I have to choose, but I will give the same amount of stars. Both skills also works on minions although the description says differently! Both of these skills will only give you energy via Leadership if the party member is below 75% health, but if there are enough, these two skills are essentially free of cost.

[skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill]
This is a great PvE skill, usually people stand still when fighting during PvE, there is far less kiting than in PvP, which makes this skill a great addition to your build. It reduces the damage taken by the party by half (apart from hexes and conditions of course). Cast just when entering a battle or when those heavy damage dealers kick into the fight. With an energy management skill like "Go for the Eyes" or not too many other energy based skills on your bar this skill can be used every 30 sec without too much problems.

[skill]"We Shall Return!"[/skill]
Not worth the skill slot, better take a skill to actually prevent people from dying. Even for PvP I think this skill is not useful, there is much better stuff to take.

[skill]Anthem of Envy[/skill]
Nice party wide damage booster, adrenaline base is nice so you can use it as a bit of energy management on the side, but also limits it: you can't cast it at the beginning of the battle. Mind that it doesn't work on pet attacks and like other similar Paragon skills it only works on the first hit and not on all hits of for example a Barrage. Gets 4 stars if there are no casters apart from monks in the party.

[skill]Anthem of Guidance[/skill]
Might have its uses in PvE in area's with a lot of blocking, but putting a wild blow on a Warrior which ends the stance is far more useful in about any case. It is also hard to get the adrenaline in the first place when your attacks are getting blocked.

[skill]Bladeturn Refrain[/skill]
Hard to give a judgement, it is very nice damage reduction against slashing: in area's with a lot of axe and sword warriors and dervishes this is a very nice damage reducer. But you really need to know your area's for this skill, it is also not party wide and therefore harder to use, but on the other hand it is an echo so it renews itself.

[skill]Crippling Anthem[/skill]
Cripple is mainly strong in PvP, it can help in PvE, but overall you won't really need it. But if you want/need cripple a lot, this is really a skill you should put on your bar though.

[skill]Godspeed[/skill]
If you need a party wide running skill you could consider this one, combine it with things like [skill=text]Aegis[/skill] on another character or even [skill=text]Dwayna's Sorrow[/skill] on your own bar (pure and only to trigger the enchant requirement of this shout) or make everybody to take mending . Although Fall back would be your choice most of the times, this shout doesn't need to be useless always, but it is very limited the very least.

[skill]Song of Concentration[/skill]
Anti-interrupt chant. Only works on the next skill. Although it is in the Command line it is in principle unlinked. Preventing interrupting is nice and all, but can't think of any area where this would be a skill I would consider taking. Only uses would be to combine with long cast spells, like resurrection spells in PvP or things like [skill=text]Meteor Shower[/skill].



Leadership

[skill]"Lead the Way!"[/skill]
Another rather pointless running skill, but at least this one also works on yourself. It is rather long duration and short recharge time, but the energy cost is not really small either, also because it works on only one target, leadership will give you only 1 energy back. Maybe for having a laugh, but no real use in PvE.

[skill]"Make Your Time!"[/skill]
Just an adrenaline gaining spell, will get you faster into serious damage dealing, but cost and mainly recharge time are rather high. Leadership doesn't give you energy back for this shout because it only works on yourself.

[skill]"They're on Fire!"[/skill]
Combine this with massive burning spreading of for example a [skill=text]Searing Flames[/skill] elementalist and you have a great damage reducing shout. You can keep it up indefinitely and with decent leadership it almost costs nothing. It is also a great trigger for echo's etc. I am not sure whether it reduces the damage from spells like [skill=text]Backfire[/skill] and alike, but I doubt it. It doesn't get 5 smiley's, because the damage reduction is nice, but not mind blasting.

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill]
If you want high DPS either with a spear or different weapon on a Paragon, this skill is a must have. Its huge energy cost is tricky if you need to recast it, so you need to try to keep it up all time by spamming "Go for the Eyes", "They're on fire" and Anthem of Flame for example. Also make sure you got high Leadership to extend the duration to keep it up more easily. Using this skill with less than 10 points in Leadership is madness, 12 or even up to 16 makes this skill far more easy to use. This skill is not easy to use in Nightfall, you see quite often foes with anti-shout spells/hexes and wells, but in Factions and Prophecies this will be far less a problem. No 5 smiley's here either, because it is quite troublesome to keep this refrain up, between battles.

[skill]Angelic Bond[/skill]
[skill=text]Life Bond[/skill] without damage reduction, but also without being an enchant so no upkeep nor removable. The damage dealt back to you doesn't trigger things like [skill=text]Balthazar's Spirit[/skill] and ignores the Paragon armor. It is spammable and you can keep it on multiple targets, but if you are not very careful it, it will kill you really fast, you also can't cancel it. It can be used as a life-saver, but it is not really fast casting either. So, very hard to use, takes your elite, but can be a life-saver. Over-all I would say, don't take it for PvE or at the very least talk it over with the monk in your party so he knows what is happening.

[skill]Angelic Protection[/skill]
Never really used it and I doubt I will, but I think this might be a nice skill. The damage that needs to be done to a target must be huge to let this one start doing his job, but it has no activation time, can't be removed or shattered. Its recharge time is rather long though and usually a [skill=text]Protective Spirit[/skill] or [skill=text]shield of absorption[/skill] would do fine and probably better.

[skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill]
Just a nice little skill, nothing too big, no need to feel ashamed to put this on your bar though. Does some nice burning damage and can be used to trigger echo's. Like may other it only works on the first hit of skills like Barrage. Combine with other stuff like echo's, Glowing Signet, SF ele's maybe and "They are on Fire" to get more effect out of it.

[skill]Anthem of Fury[/skill]
Decent skill if your party has enough adrenaline users, will boost the overall DPS quite a bit, it is fairly spammable and free of energy cost if used correctly. 1 sec casting time is a pity, I would have rather seen a 0 sec here so you can just cast it during attacking. A bit of a problem might be that the gain only is triggered when a skill is used, so that would mean the other adrenaline users should start of with an energy based skill or a low adrenaline cost skill combined with high cost ones on the bar.

[skill]Awe[/skill]
[skill=text]Shock[/skill] and Awe, seems the intention. But a Paragon is usually further away, and not in touch range and the exhaustion is not very easy to cope with. It is a rather cheap and non-elite daze, but hard to use because the Paragon don't have a knock-down himself in principle. Using it on a secondary Paragon might have been an idea if it was not in Leadership. Maybe not useless, but at least not easy to use.

[skill]Blazing Finale[/skill]
Great burning skill, combine with a fast recharge shout or chant like "Go for the Eyes" and put it on one or two of the tanks in your party. I am not sure whether this skill might cause scattering of foes, so keep an eye on that, but I doubt it because it doesn't do direct damage but spreads a condition.

[skill]Burning Refrain[/skill]
Might be hard for PvP, but in PvE this sounds really great. Most foes have quite a bit more health than players to start with. So this is a nice extra damage initiator. Its power also comes from its "costless" refreshing, but this might need some coordination when it wears off. A paragon can only see this by the damage dealer telling him this or looking careful at the lack of burning.

[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill]
Although the damage reduction is good, but the energy cost, duration, casting time and conditionality makes this skill not that useful. You can just wait for that player to end it himself when you cast it. Only useful on casters. It is in essence a kind of Aegis which is cheaper (because of Leadership) and can't be stripped, but it ends too easy too fast making it fairly useless. It can be taken if your party consists of loads of casters if you really want to, but if you got mainly weapon damage dealers, it is utter crap.

[skill]Enduring Harmony[/skill]
I suppose it can have its uses for specific builds, but normally just don't take this skill. Also only works on one target. Consider taking [skill=text]Vocal was Sogolon[/skill] if you really want to extend chants and shouts, this does work for all party members, but it requires an investment of points in restoration.

[skill]Focused Anger[/skill]
Now we are getting somewhere! This is an decent and useful elite skill. Great for many adrenaline based builds, for spear attacks but also to increase spammability of "Go for the Eyes" and therefore energy management for example. Mind the adrenaline cap though, putting more than 10 points in Leadership is useless for this skill alone, because that would result in a more than +100% extra adrenaline gain. Great thing is, it is not a spell, shout nor chant so it is not effected by hexes and wells countering those and it can't be interrupted because it has no casting time. If you combine this skill with [skill=text]serpent's quickness[/skill] even without points in wilderness you could keep it up as good as non-stop.

[skill]Glowing Signet[/skill]
A nice energy management skill, bit hard to use though. Burning is usually short of duration so you should really time it well, but that is possible because of the 1/4 sec activation time. Combined with SF ele, or some burning skill from the paragon himself this should give you a load of energy. I can't really give it less that 3 smileys, although this signet might not be used that much. Downside of this skill might be that energy gain is its only effect, added interruption maybe like [skill=text]leech signet[/skill] or a little bit of damage (30-40 or so) seems like a logical addition it should have.

[skill]Hexbreaker Aria[/skill]
Hard to give this one a judgement. It is one of the few party wide hex removal skills around in the game and it is also in essence unlinked although it is in the Leadership line. Combining this with an adrenaline booster skill like Focused Anger or even using Barrage will make this skill a bit more spammable. Big downside is that it only works on spells and not on all skills, this makes it far less useful. Also the hex triggers first before it gets removed. This means it is useless against [skill=text]diversion[/skill] and alike. You could consider taking it combined with an adrenaline boosting skill if you have a lot of casters in the party, but overall it is limited in use.

[skill]Leader's Comfort[/skill]
The self heal of the Paragon, low cost, fairly spammable and a nice heal. Main problem is, it is not so good when you happen to be the sole survivor or some people have died already. In those situations you will need it more, but it gets less effective. Yourself and also minions are counted as allies. This spell is slightly bugged because even all mini-pets count as allies!! This won't really make difference in the end in most situations, but with low leadership, it can give you 80 more health when everybody has one spawned. 3 stars because it works on mini pets else I might have given it 2 because of the limits at reduced party size.

[skill]Natural Temper[/skill]
Another adrenaline building skill. With 0 or only a small amount of points in Leadership it is not effective, because it costs adrenaline. If you use the skill you will lose 1 adrenaline for all skills and after the duration of this skill you will only just make that back. But with higher leadership it is even still a little adrenaline gainer. A spear attacks with 1.5 sec attack speed and you need 3 attacks to gain one extra strike. So with high leadership you will only gain one strike of adrenaline extra while using this skill over a period of it 9 sec duration. Not really worth it, probably just better take another skill which actually does something useful like a spear attack or shout. Combined with attack speed boosters it will become slightly better. Also when you have an "over-enthusiastic" enchantment caster (think Aegis, or even prot spirit and cheaper spammable monk enchantments) in your party it is entirely crap.

[skill]Signet of Return[/skill]
A nice re-usable resurrect. Advantages is that it is not a spell and costs no energy. Typical a mid-fight res, when one ally has been killed getting him fast into the fight again with decent health and some energy without blackout effects and alike. It is not that great when the party has been whipped and you are the sole survivor, [skill=text]rebirth[/skill] is far better in those situations. So, nice to replace a signet or to have one of these in the team, but won't replace a rebirth.

[skill]Soldier's Fury[/skill]
A higher attack speed boost than aggressive refrain, easier to recast, but the requirement for a chant or shout for the boost can be tricky. You need to combine it with chants and shouts with long duration, which you can keep up non-stop, or which don't trigger on you so they just wear out. Examples of chants and shouts for this are: They're on Fire and Watch yourself, chants and shout like Go for the Eyes are not useful for upkeep here. Pure for adrenaline gain Focussed Anger is better, but maybe combine this with things like [skill=text]conjure flame[/skill] or zealous and vampiric weapon mods to get the full gain from the speed boost. Advantage of this skill is, that is easier to maintain because of the 5 energy cost if you don't have really high leadership, which is needed for aggressive refrain. This skill works better with more shouters around, but same goes for aggressive refrain really. Note that all speed boosts are capped at +33% if the skill itself doesn't say it does more, so using both this one and aggressive refrain at the same time is useless.




Ok, now the line of skills of the Paragon which have been hit the hardest by the nerve bat. Every time I see these skills I can't stop thinking: a monk or even a ritualist can do this far better, the heals are usually too small, too conditional and have too long recharge times. If compared with Command line, that one needs only 8-9 points investment to be effective where as the motivation line usually requires more to start to make a difference. But of course we have to keep in mind these skills are low cost due to Leadership and party wide, which makes the heals add up quite nicely in specific situations. Lets plough through:



Motivation

[skill]"It's just a flesh wound."[/skill]
A skill similar to [skill=text]draw conditions[/skill]. Only works on one target and not on the entire party, but the very short recharge time, the lack of an activation time and not being a spell makes it useful. You have to use it with care, because on the DW, but it leaves you with only one condition and not a lot of different ones. Combination with [skill=text]Remedy Signet[/skill] seems obvious. It does take your elite though. For PvP it might be nice, but also DW is more dangerous there. For PvE it can work, but there are better elites and skills around which can do a similar job. You could even think of taking this one on a necro or with 0 points in motivation and taking [skill=text]plague touch[/skill], but this is not a thing you will use often.

[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]
You can probably write several pages full about this skill, but I will keep it short. After use it will leave a Paragon without energy for 10 sec, energy hiding set and high adrenaline based build is required if you want to use this. Combination with "Go for the Eyes" to regain energy after the 10 sec energy degen seems a good idea. For caster/energy heavy parties it might be nice, but the gain and spammability are not very high, also because the Paragon needs some time to get that 10 energy again to use it. [skill=text]Blood is power[/skill] gives more energy for one target, but this is party wide and causes an energy sacrifice instead of health, there comes the power from.
Note: although the description says party members, it is all allies within earshot, this is for example useful in Alliance Battle.

[skill]Aria of Restoration[/skill]
Like most party wide heals in the motivation line, the health gain is not that big and the recharge time high-ish. If you have a lot of casters in your party and you want another heal chant next to [skill=text]ballad of restoration[/skill] you could consider this one. It gives little bit more health but quite a bit more conditional.

[skill]Aria of Zeal[/skill]
Energy gain is too small, too long recharge time and restricted to casters. Not useless, but not great, only use when you have a spot left and have to fill it up or have mainly casters in your party.

[skill]Ballad of Restoration[/skill]
This is one of the less useless ones, although it has a bit lower health gain than others and still the same recharge time, it is at least far less conditional. It does the healing where it is needed: people which are getting hit. It is like a party-wide [skill=text]reversal of fortune[/skill]. I haven't tested it, but on wiki it is said that the heal is done before the damage: this is good when people are on low health, but makes this skill less effective when everybody is still on full health: so better not pre-cast before going into a battle, but use it during the battle.

[skill]Chorus of Restoration[/skill]
This skill requires a closer look, on the first look it looks utter crap, but it is not that bad. First, it is great in a party with a large number of Paragons and warriors all carrying shouts, the skill is quite spammable. This can be encountered in PvP, in PvE however: never. For a pure self heal better just take [skill=text]Leader's comfort[/skill], you should have decent leadership anyway when you want to go shouting. But don't write down this skill completely yet because it is adrenaline based and therefore it can be used as energy management. Be wary though of the recharge time, this skill only start regaining adrenaline after the recharge time has been completed, which means you only get half as much energy back effectively compared to "Go for the Eyes". But this gives you an alternative for bringing "Go for the Eyes" at very low command and still have some energy management, it provides a nice health bonus on the side instead of a 30% extra chance of a critical hit.

[skill]Energizing Chorus[/skill]
Pure energy management. Using this skill gives you energy and the next energy based shout/chant costs less, combined with leadership again you will likely gain a bit more energy. Be careful not to use an adrenaline based shout/chant after this, that will end the chorus.

[skill]Energizing Finale[/skill]
There are several things to consider with this skill. The gain is not that big, but if you are able to spam shouts fast enough, this could provide a little energy gain on several targets. the energy cost for the Paragon is a bit high to cast though. You must also watch out with "Go for the Eyes" spamming and putting this finale on a monk, because "Go for the Eyes" doesn't end fast on a monk because he won't be attacking. In that case [skill=text]"Watch Yourself!"[/skill] with 0 in tactics might be a nice trick, but that will be only a gain of 1 energy per 5 seconds. Using more different shouts makes it more easy and better gain. Second part is, it is hard to tell whether the final has ended, so you need to watch the time yourself carefully or use good communication for a recast. Like somebody on wiki also said: nice boobs ...

[skill]Finale of Restoration[/skill]
Same as for the above one, but now with health. The gain of health is actually quite worth it, but the higher recharge time compared to the energy counterpart prevents you to put in on a lot of allies making it quite a bit less useful again. Hero's use these two skills like real pro's.

[skill]Leader's Zeal[/skill]
Another energy management skill, watch out using it with too few people around so you will only gain very little or even cause you to lose energy. Could be an option if you can't run high-ish Leadership for some reason. The energy cost is a pity, adrenaline base would have been nicer, but it is fairly spammable. 6 energy per 12 sec is really not bad, but not huge either.

[skill]Lyric of Purification[/skill]
Far and far too conditional. Trigger on a signet, utter crap. Quite some builds have a signet in, but players must also use it to remove the condition and not many will do that or even know what this thing is when it is put on them, so they know to use a signet.

[skill]Lyric of Zeal[/skill]
Same for this one really as the one above. The duration is also even shorter, so you just need to use that signet with 10 sec. But it is less useless than the one above. It does work as energy management through leadership and the adrenaline base. Bringing a signet yourself, it can provide for a nice energy bonus. And also with some communication to the monks and with the use of [skill=text]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill] or [skill=text]signet of devotion[/skill] it can help out a bit with energy. Problem is still though that the monks need to use one of those signets in the 10 second window. Only an option with very good communication and area's where energy is a huge problem and then still the gain is not really huge for the work needed to get this thing to function.

[skill]Mending Refrain[/skill]
It is an echo, and it is [skill=text]mending[/skill], ha ha gg Anet Like most echo's it is a bitch to manage and like the real mending it doesn't give that much heal. With some practice though you should be able to keep this one up on a lot of party members and could counter some nice pressure with it. This isn't as bad as real mending, because it doesn't require traditional upkeep and you can put it on quite some allies. Problems is you will want to keep these up between fights else you will have to start casting them all over again, this might not be easy with people walking outside your agro-range (earshot).

[skill]Purifying Finale[/skill]
Bit more conditional than the mending refrain and it also doesn't renew itself. Not that useful. You could use it to keep some allies free from critical conditions like, weakness and blind on the warriors and daze on the casters in specific area's, but you can't keep it up party wide making it less useful.

[skill]Signet of Synergy[/skill]
Nice addition for your shout build. Use it mainly as a heal to help out the monks on other allies (and not so much as a self heal) while your shouts and chants recharge. Don't really see the use in a build where you use spear attacks or is heavy based on adrenaline, because it will require you to stop attacking.

[skill]Song of Power[/skill]
The gain this skill can bring is huge, but the initial cost is enormous and recharge time is large but not that bad. The big problem is of course that it ends on using a skill: people low on energy wait until they have 5 energy and use a skill, chant ends, 2 energy gained ... whoopiedo! On monks it is also not that useful, they just can't wait 15sec or more just to gain energy, people will die in the mean time. Using good communication it could work with "smart" SF ele's for example who get low on energy, cast this chant, let them wait it out and they have plenty of energy again. So it can be very nice, use real players, who know what this skill is and call it out: gain >12E extra. For the paragon this chants costs a lot, but he will also get the extra energy regen, combined with leadership it doesn't effectively cost that a whooping lot.

[skill]Song of Purification[/skill]
Not that conditional, doesn't require energy, has the potential to remove a lot of conditions. Because of the low adrenaline cost a Paragon should be able to put this up quite a bit of the time. It is not that overpowered as it might look at the first sight, the "catch" is that after the 3 skills it ends, even if there has been no condition on the target in that period. A very nice skill, provided there are a lot of conditions around else it is over-kill.

[skill]Song of Restoration[/skill]
In essence a costless [skill=text]heal party[/skill], but less fast recharge and needs a skill to trigger. Great skill. Can't give it 5 smiley's though, because of the somewhat long recharge time combined with the amount of health gained, taking away the possibility to heal up the party quick after it have been hit by a large AoE strike. Also [skill=text]Light of Deliverance[/skill] puts this skill a bit in the shadow, like it also does to other chants and shouts from the motivation line.

[skill]Zealous Anthem[/skill]
Brother of Aria of Zeal, but now for the other group: weapon based attackers. Can give a nice energy help to axe warriors with things like [skill=text]Triple chop[/skill], [skill=text]cyclone axe[/skill] combo, sins and rangers. Only useful for particular team builds, else most weapon based attackers usually can take care of this themselves or don't need it. Can have its uses, but overall I would say no need to drag along. Also would have been more sensible to me if it was command based, which is for boosting weapon based attacking, motivation is more defence/caster support.


Spear Mastery

[skill]Barbed Spear[/skill]
Decent spear attack. Adrenaline base make it a nice addition in an energy heavy build and low cost makes it spammable. Don't need a huge amount of points in spear mastery to make it work. Problem with bleeding is, it is rather common: minions, warriors, rangers and also assassins cause it in large amounts. Be careful that there is not too many bleeding in the team, in that case it is rather useless. Also don't use it in over and over again on the same target that is stupid, spread it around and that should be relatively easy because it is a ranged attack.

[skill]Blazing Spear[/skill]
Very good and strong spear attack. It requires a quite bit of adrenaline though, which takes some time to build. Unlike the Barbed Spear, this attack profits from some more points in spear mastery to make it better, 12 or up to bring burning to 3 sec is not a bad idea. It does a little less damage than [skill=text]burning arrow[/skill] but this one is not an elite.

[skill]Cruel Spear[/skill]
If you want a spear mastery elite this is nice to bring (but there are only 2 and the other one is even as good). Nice damage, looks a bit like [skill=text]Eviscerate[/skill], but the ranged nature is further balance by the condition that a target must be standing still, but this should usually not be a problem in PvE. Keep an eye out before using though whether the target is really standing still to get the full effect. DW also applies if the spear is blocked.

[skill]Disrupting Throw[/skill]
The only interrupt of the Paragon. It is only an interrupt and no disable like [skill=text]Distracting Shot[/skill] and requires a condition: combine with barbed spear. The condition is easy applied, but still make it far more tricky to use. Also against fleshless foes like djinn it gets harder to use because you can't apply long lasting conditions like poison or bleeding easy, DW is still possible but that one is less easy applied and is not that useful when a foe is on high health still. Does interrupt in combination with [skill=text]anthem of flame[/skill], burning is applied first, but kills the interruption speed.

[skill]Harrier's Toss[/skill]
For PvE the cost is a bit high for the conditional damage that is not easy used: foes are usually standing still. I will drop this one for Spear of Lightning anytime.

[skill]Merciless Spear[/skill]
Another deep wound applier, bit similar to [skill=text]dismember[/skill]. It is not that bad, but a bit underpowered, a bit of added damage would have made it more useful. The conditionality is not a huge problem in PvE, DW makes only really sense anyway in PvE when a foe is lower on health (when there are no enemy monks around). It makes it a bit trickier to apply though: be careful not to use it too eagerly that is a waste of adrenaline. Also be careful here when using it if the foe uses a self heal bringing his health above 50% again.

[skill]Mighty Throw[/skill]
Whoow so much extra damage for 2 adrenaline , yes but the casting time reduces the DPS, where you can put 2 normal spear attacks now you use one heavy hitter. It does do overall increased damage, but don't mistake in thinking that it is a pure +34 or so. It is a very typical spike skill. The increase flying speed is nice, but doesn't do anything for PvE, the increased casting time doesn't allow you to quickly kill a fleeing foe. Although the skill description says the casting time is 3 seconds it is more close to 2 seconds (tested), this is also reported on wiki for example. Combined with Focused Anger I tend to give it 2 smiley's, because of the 2 adrenaline cost it means you can use this skill non-stop, but it is certainly not my favourite skill.

[skill]Slayer's Spear[/skill]
Another DW causer, in contrast to Merciless Spear it does extra damage, but it cost 10E which is rather a lot for a paragon, so you need to combine it with for example "Go for the Eyes" or a lot of adrenaline skills. The DW can't be applied in the early area's and if it can be applied you should at the beginning of the fight, which is a bit odd. But luckily the DW duration is decent.

[skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill]
The basic spear attack of the Paragon, good damage no conditional damage or so, just plain pain. Nice and spammable if you are careful not to bring too many other energy skills. No 5 stars because it is not mind blasting.

[skill]Stunning Strike[/skill]
A very nice damage dealer and dazer, caster hate. It does require a fair amount of adrenaline, so it takes some time before you can use it. It is less general usable than Cruel Spear, but it is strong and very handy. Combine with either Barbed Spear or Anthem of Flame for fleshless foes. Daze duration isn't that long, but else it would become a problem for PvP, it is long enough to be effective if you time it right.

[skill]Swift Javelin[/skill]
Increased damage is not bad, but Spear of Lightning is just better. Paragons don't have enchantments, so the conditional extra is a bit odd (maybe for things like [skill=text]Order of the Vampire[/skill] but still it is odd) and the extra is not that good anyway. Unblockable is nice, but for only one of these spears it is not going to be a big deal for the foe.

[skill]Unblockable Throw[/skill]
Doesn't end the stance, better more reliable spike skill than mighty throw, but the adrenaline cost for the unblockable is just insane for PvE. Again this one spear going through the stance is not going to be a big deal for PvE. Crap, junk, don't ever use.

[skill]Vicious Attack[/skill]
Combines really good with "Go for the Eyes", it doesn't give 100% a critical that way, but the chance is big enough to make this a great combo. Because "Go for the Eyes" has no casting time you can even first click the Vicious Attack, then quickly hit "Go for the Eyes" before the spear leaves your hand and it still works. That way you can speed it up a bit, but you will need to practice it ones or twice, you need to do it pretty fast, but you should have plenty of time. But this is also just a better way of doing it: if you hit "Go for the Eyes" first and if you were already attacking, there is a very decent chance that a normal spear attack you were using already triggers "Go for the Eyes" (because it has no casting time) and not on the Vicious Attack you follow up with.

[skill]Wearying Spear[/skill]
Ah this is a very tricky one, either you hate it or you love it and I have no idea what I do yet. A huge damage dealer for 3 adrenaline, but it weakens you taking off 66% of your follow up DPS and -1 attribute points, mainly this -1 attributes is painful else it might not have been such a big deal by combining this with some chants etc. It is of short duration, but still it is tricky. [skill=text]Avatar of Melandru[/skill] pops in mind of course, but that is far from excessable, [skill=text]remedy signet[/skill] is an idea, but if there are a lot of conditions around you might not remove weaken but a poison with slips through, [skill=text]antidote signet[/skill] doesn't work. Problem also is with the signets, it is a extra step you need to do and you can't continue attacking. Final option is to take [skill=text]Song of Purification[/skill], but the Weakness is not removed directly and only on the next skill use. This next skill must be something which doesn't suffer that much from weakness, think of barbed spear. Using things like reduced weakness runes and shield could help, but these are usually not more than 20% reduction (making it 4 seconds) or stack a load of these things reducing it a bit further. There will be people who will find this skill godly, but for many others it will be too much a fuss.

[skill]Wild Throw[/skill]
Deeply overshadowed by [skill=text]wild blow[/skill] (although that causes to lose all your adrenaline), the adrenaline requirement is just stupid, you can't build adrenaline if you are getting blocked all the time and by the time you have the adrenaline the stance has worn off. But still a stance ender is nice to have. In PvE you can just charge this one while attacking a Ele or so and when he is dead switch to that ranger and you are able to end his [skill=text]whirling defense[/skill] or [skill=text]lightning reflexes[/skill], but you could also just hit the ranger a couple times, when he puts up his stance, change target and kill him when the stance wears off I used this skill though a couple times in area's with loads of stances like the beginning of NF and found it useful, so I will still give it one smiley.



Unlinked

[skill]Cautery Signet[/skill]
Compared with [skill=text]Martyr[/skill] it doesn't require energy, it only gives your one condition which is easy removed with for example Remedy Signet or a monk and it is a signet. But the recharge time is longer. Handy against Abbadon, and condition heavy area's, but is not really my elite of choice. It is unlinked and combined with [skill=text]plague touch[/skill] or [skill=text]plague sending[/skill] it can also do some decent burning to a foe. Big plus is: it is has unlimited range, for PvE this will rarely be a big thing but for GvG it can be extremely nice.

[skill]Remedy Signet[/skill]
Not really a must have on your bar, depends a bit on the rest of your build, but just another condition remover. Compare to [skill=text]antidote signet[/skill] it can remove any condition, but only one.

[skill]Signet of Aggression[/skill]
This skill will allow you to maintain your adrenaline between battles and even build it before going in if you have the patience. Unlinked makes it possible to use on warriors, but it also requires a shout/chant to use.




(I got quite some info from Wiki, GWGuru and GWOnline, but it is impossible to track back what I got from where I am afraid)
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Old May 08, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25   #2
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Overall I believe that they need to adjust certain skills for the Paragon. Such as "Incoming!" I don't know how long it lasted before the nerf, but they need to jack up the time it is in effect... 2 sec. more would make it a pretty useful elite in my opinion, and Paragon's are in need of a few more of those.
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Old May 09, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30   #3
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Yes, too useful, bring 3 copies and nothing will ever die on your team in PvP. Paragons are too strong together, gg 8-paragon teams.
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Old May 09, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09   #4
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This was an ambitious effort meneer. I'll follow your format while sharing my thoughts. I'll have to approach it piecemeal though.

I've found PvE easy with my paragon though I've never tried playing with PuGs. I have done several missions and quests with alliance members but no random human players. I have masters on all Nightfall missions, doing so on the first try in all but Grand Court of Sebelkeh where it took several tries with different strategies to find a solution that worked without other human players in the specified time. I encountered no more than moderate challenge in doing so. Those quests and missions that I've done with both my assassin and paragon have always been easier with the paragon. When playing with alliance members I've smiled quietly when they comment on how much easier it was this time. I feel no need to salvage the paragon's reputation among the uninformed. The evidence is readily available analytically and empirically to show that paragons are a solid PvE class for those willing to look. Observer mode indicates that this is true in PvP as well but I can't make personal comments on that aspect of the game.

Sadly, I don't have much PvP paragon experience outside of AB and RA (those familiar with RA will understand why I don't apply that experience to my skill comments ) as the alliances I've been in don't do anything beyond AB. GvG is actually where I'd like to focus my game time but finding the right group is more effort than I've been willing to devote so far. As such, my skill comments are focused solely on PvE at this time.
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Old May 09, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16   #5
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Great work on the guide. Really a must-read for anyone who wants to get into Paragon.

Couple of short comments:

"Make Haste!" is an excellent skill in almost any situation. It's essentially a permanent, unstrippable 33% speed boost for your monk. Very useful in Hard Mode especially, but it shines in HvH etc. as well.

And Anthem of Fury is simply brilliant if there are even 3 adrenaline users in the party. The low cost and recharge means this skill can seriously crank up the adrenaline gain of Warriors and Paragons, making high cost adrenal skills trivial to charge on a regular basis. Also triggers Echos. I put this skill on Morgahn's bar, and it's never coming off. EDIT: forgot to mention the fact that the bonus Adrenaline is gained simply by USING an attack skill. The attack doesn't even have to hit anything.

Last edited by semantic; May 09, 2007 at 09:22 AM // 09:22..
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Old May 09, 2007, 07:18 AM // 07:18   #6
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I'll start with Spear Mastery as most of my analysis and play time has focused on this attribute. Spear damage per second (DPS) is good by itself but becomes excellent when a high attribute level (14 to 16), increased attack speed (IAS) (typically [skill=text]Aggressive Refrain[/skill]) and increased criticals through [skill=text]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill] are used. I alternate between builds using primarily energy based and adrenaline based attacks. I generally play with Spear Mastery at 16. As noted above, this is a PvE biased commentary.

Spear Mastery

[card]Barbed Spear[/card]
I never found a use for it after my first time on the Plains of Jarin. No damage bonus and bleeding just doesn't do enough damage in the time it typically takes to kill a PvE opponent. Especially with heroes and henchmen generally attacking your target. If condition removal were more common in PvE it could have a place as a cover for the daze from [skill=text]Stunning Strike[/skill]. Or if playing with humans where you could spread the condition around it may have more use.

[card]Blazing Spear[/card]
One of my favorite spear attacks. Very good damage bonus and a useful condition that augments damage and triggers other skills like [skill=text]"They're on Fire!"[/skill] or [skill=text]Stunning Strike[/skill].

[card]Cruel Spear[/card]
I give this one star not because its a bad skill on its own merit but because there are other good ways to inflict a deep wound without using an elite. In the context of the full skill bar, I don't consider this a good choice.

[card]Disrupting Throw[/card]
This just hasn't been useful for me. Too many conditionals in my opinion. The foe must have a condition, the skill to be interrupted must have an activation time long enough to interrupt with the spear's flight time plus a 1/2 second activation and the attack can be dodged or blocked. All to interrupt one skill with a 10+ second wait between attempts and no damage bonus. I'd rather carry a Mesmer interrupt or better yet, let someone else in the party handle interrupts while I focus on damage or damage mitigation.

[card]Harrier's Toss[/card]
I like this attack, particularly in PvP, but also in PvE. This can cause a lot of pain when opponents rush in at the start of a fight, chase one of your casters around, or try to retreat. Its particularly deadly against casters retreating due to low health. Followed immediately by [skill=text]Spear of Lightning[/skill] the paragon can deliver a big one, two punch that will definitely be noticed. Much of the additional damage is conditional on movement but that opportunity is common enough to warrant use in many situations.

[card]Merciless Spear[/card]
This is the deep wound skill I carry when using an adrenaline attack build. Sometimes a heal beats the attack but with [skill=text]Focused Anger[/skill], the attack is ready again in short order. No bonus damage unfortunately.

[card]Mighty Throw[/card]
Yuck! That 3 s activation time just killed your DPS.

[card]Slayer's Spear[/card]
Not too bad in PvE where you have lots of opportunity to attack opponents with more health than you. Although it is more commonly advocated as part of spike damage to finish off an opponent, deep wounds do provide benefit when applied at high health if they aren't removed. Condition removal isn't that common in PvE but at 10e I prefer other ways of inflicting a deep wound.

[card]Spear of Lightning[/card]
Hard to argue with good bonus damage, armor penetration and low energy cost. This is almost always on my skill bar.

[card]Stunning Strike[/card]
A situational attack that does excellent bonus damage in addition to inflicting daze. Not a good general use elite though so I only carry it when I expect to face particularly troublesome casters. In other words, hardly ever in PvE. The 10a is a little painful since you can't bring [skill=text]Focused Anger[/skill]. Probably best used as part of a party build taking advantage of the daze.

[card]Swift Javelin[/card]
I guess if you designed a party build to keep your paragon enchanted and you only needed to attack once every 10 seconds this might solve the problem of having your attacks blocked. Its just not good enough to supplant other skills.

[card]Unblockable Throw[/card]
Like [skill=text]Mighty Throw[/skill], that 3 s activation time kills your DPS.

[card]Vicious Attack[/card]
This is the deep wound skill I carry when using an energy attack build. Good bonus damage coupled with the chance to inflict a deep wound on a critical. Chances of inflicting a critical are good when coupled with [skill=text]"Go for the Eyes!"[/skill]

[card]Wearying Spear[/card]
The bonus damage looks attractive at first glance but weakness more than compensates with reduced damage on subsequent attacks. The right party build could eliminate the weakness (such as the all paragon build proposed by Claw of Crimson) but I'm not yet convinced it is a reliable increase in DPS. One star until I am able to test that possibility.

[card]Wild Throw[/card]
Good bonus damage, can't be blocked and ends troublesome stances. Too situational for me to carry all the time. I've used it against Shiro and occasionally in areas with a lot of blocking stances. The 7a is bearable if using [skill=text]Focused Anger[/skill]. Still, its usually needed when adrenaline is hard to come by because your attacks are being blocked. I'd give it four stars if it were an energy based skill with a reasonable recharge time.
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Old May 09, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
Yes, too useful, bring 3 copies and nothing will ever die on your team in PvP. Paragons are too strong together, gg 8-paragon teams.
This has been the underlying problem with the paragon from day one. People in pvp hate the paragon because it is 'overpowered' and pve'ers hate them because they are 'useless' (or less effective) in pve. I beleive this problem is not the skills themselves but class's mechanics.


Some of the skills ,however, Truly need adjustment for use in either pvp or pve. Many skills are way to situational, and need an added bonus to be somewhat usefull.

I truly hope the skills in GW:en solve some of the paragon's apparent 'downsides'.

With the right skills/adjustment I would easily call the paragon my favourite class. ....well 'if' they get some better armour in Gw:en. Something a Little more ....battle ready, like the Kournan soldiers. A helmet of somekind would make my day. Like the one from 'Gladiator'.
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Old May 09, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24   #8
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Really nice breakdown of the skills, meener. Inspired me to try my paragon again
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Old May 10, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
Yes, too useful, bring 3 copies and nothing will ever die on your team in PvP. Paragons are too strong together, gg 8-paragon teams.
Hmm, I don't know... the eight necro team crushed the eight paragon team in a matter of minutes in the match I observed awhile back.
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Old May 10, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09   #10
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Now for the part that interests me, understanding why others rate skills differently and determining what can be learned from that.

Not many have offered opinions yet but meneer and I have notable differences in 5 spear mastery skills.

[skill=text]Barbed Spear[/skill] I'll admit I don't understand a 3 star rating. Hopefully someone can enlighten me.

[skill=text]Cruel Spear[/skill] Big difference in opinion here. Very good damage bonus and a deep wound are nice but does it offer enough benefit to the team to choose it over another elite?

[skill=text]Disrupting Throw[/skill] Have others used this successfully and consistently? My experience with it wasn't positive, especially compared to other interrupt skills, but perhaps I need to develop expertise with it.

[skill=text]Harrier's Toss[/skill] There appears to be a difference in play style or team build that has resulted in different PvE experiences here. I often see opponents move as targets change or casters kite, what's your experience?

[skill=text]Merciless Spear[/skill] I haven't had problems applying a deep wound with this skill. Some practice is needed to get a feel for when you can reliably apply the deep wound but occasionally missing the condition isn't make or break in PvE. I need some help understanding the low rating.
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Old May 10, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06   #11
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for me its like this as far as spear mastery...

Cruel Spear is by far (imo) the best elite for paragons in the whole class next to maybe focus anger.. which i dont use all that often because i PvP more than PvE.

Barbed Spear is simple cut and dry.. good condition.. but only a 2 star imo

Disrupting Throw.. ok .. i think you guys must just have bad luck or something . this skill is almost a must have for me in pvp.. i dont play without it if im going for dps king.

Harriers Toss. if im playing Cruel Spike in any arena, especially GvG/HA, i always have this. too much kiting, and with proper timing/gameplay experience, you can rip a caster up in seconds with harriers, they stop to heal; Cruel+Disrupt almost every time. its literally almost a 3 hit kill at times, and will definitely take out a caster with less than 3/4 hp.

i dont use Merciless.. i use Vicious+GFTE, but thats me.. i just.. havent used it much..

Stunning.. well.. its 10 andren isnt attractive at all.. so i rarely use it, especially seeing as its meant for pvp, and in pvp, if im using spears, i use cruel spike or some shout/utility builds.

thats all just me though, we all have what we like/dont like :P!
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