Curse

Your Every Desire · Jun 11, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

whats the point in having paragon as a pve based character when, at the end of the game you expect to be able to go into the elite missions and grab yourself some sweet items
but then you look for a group
but no1 will take you because your a paragon
you have no use in DoA
no1 wants you
so your para just sits there..being unused...
it has very few farming builds, mainly the FoW build
it has very few normal pve builds
it just sits there, getting old...
why didnt Anet make the paragon more flippin useful in pve?!!!
it really annoys me that i took my para through the game, to find out that i cant actually go into DoA because paras are not useful

Stormlord Alex · Jun 12, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Yeah, get used to it.
Mesmers, non SS/BiP/MM Necros, Ritualists, Assassins, Dervishes, smiting Monks, non-Barrage rangers, Water/Air/Earth Eles, and Warriors that dislike tanking (on account of it SUCKING HARD) are all in the same boat. If it ain't cookie-cutter, it don't exist.

It's partly the fault of the playerbase, whom are, for the most part, a bunch of 'wiki says this...' scrubs who lack the ability to adapt to anything even remotely 'new' or 'different' (trust me, it's *hard* work drilling the superiority of SF into the Meteor Shower-shagging dumbtards that inhabit the Deep), who will simply stick with the tank/heal/nuke trilogy with whatever vital necro support is (apparently) needed, as it, after all, the only thing that *works* /sarcasm

It is also the fault of Arena-Net, and their completely retarded take on what makes an elite area 'hard'. They opted for armies over-powered mobs, coupled with ridiculous environmental effects (you know, as opposed to balanced, intelligent mobs), which actively encourage the classic scrub's trilogy, and other stupid shit (like, you know... tanking, or casting Heal Party with no regard for energy management). These areas are simply not hard at all, any Jonny-Wammo can beat HM Deep, assuming he had enough cranial capacity to read wiki.

Simply put, it's not that Paragons are useless, no... It's just that Guild Wars PvE sucks, and there will never be a level of strategy deeper than tank/nuke/heal until A-Net wisens up, and actually makes it challenging on a strategic level - intelligent AI, balanced mobs (decent skills pl0x?) et al.
However, do that and... well... you might have to think.
You might need to stop cuttin' cookies.
And trust me, any kind of thought process is FAR too hard for 99.9% PvE scrublets. If they made PvE an actual challenge... They'd all go crying to WoW or something.
At least, untill the step-by-step wiki guide can lead them by the hand through it once more.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 12, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

I feel your pain!

Give us leadership shields. A daedal shield, luck of the draw, +30hp will do.
Make signet of synergy self-cast if no allies are nearby or selected.
Stop making us spread our points out through three lines. No other class has to!
Where are the <slaying> mods for spears?
Please buff leaders comfort ALOT. By the time that skill has finished casting, you're already dead, and if not, the pitiful return still leaves you close to death.

It's bad enough that we have very few skills compared to rangers, monks, mesmers, elementalists, necromancers, warriors.....
Only TWO elites in spear mastery and conditional attacks aswell, wth?
There had better be extra in store for Paragons soon because right now i regret grinding all those days getting sunspear and lightbringer maxed out.

Nothing will happen though. Nothing ever does so long as 1 or 2 people use it in HoH.
Soon as they read PvE in the thread, they click the back button in their browser. I'd like to be proven wrong.

GloryFox · Jun 12, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Your singing to the Choir here.

The question you need to ask is why was DoA designed in the first place when it's idea was broke to begin with? Any area is broke when more than half of the classes are NOT wanted there. There is nothing elite about DoA anyways.

Key skill for DoA Life Barrier (Phrophacies)

Just so you don't feel alone.
Assassins are not wanted in DoA
Dervishes even the good Dervish Earth builds are not wanted in DoA
Ritualists are not wanted in DoA
Paragons are not wanted in DoA
Mesmers are not wanted in DoA
Rangers are simi wanted for farming in DoA but can be ignored for the most part.

DoA is a grind at best and bad game design at worst. Your not missing anything.

knives · Jun 12, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

*pushes back button*

Ok, play your paragon for fun. If you haven't learned from the factions end game missions, UW, and FoW, what groups take classes outside of the holy trinity? (sometimes a necro sneaks in, and b/p groups are just as exclusive as trinity ones). If you really want to experience end game missions, grab your guildies, figure out a build, and go for it. I'm sure you've heard it before, and are probably tired of it. But unfortuantely, its probably the only way you are going to get a group w/ your paragon in these high-end areas.

I've played mesmer for awhile in PvE, and have suffered many nerfs due to PvP, but I don't blame them. Most of those skills were way too unbalanced in PvP, and thus you deal with it and go on. Mesmer skills have been conditional since the very beginning, and people who haven't played a mesmer long enough realize how unfair, how cruel, how stupid, however much needed, certain nerfs are when they decide to play the paragon.

Your Every Desire · Jun 12, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

fair points
but GloryFox, all those profs can go solo farming in places
what can the paragon do apart from FoW!!!
and come on, it hardly makes the paragon unique being able to beach farm...
Anet really sucked on this char, and on DoA
whats with all the stupid enviromental effects but creeps still being the same!!!
there is nothing i can do with my paragon, he is bloody useless
especially since half of the decent skills require you to build up adrenaline or require a trigger from another shout etc.
the spear just doesnt do enough, some people compare the para to an axe/sword warrior because of similar dps, but axe/sword warriors have variations on builds...
im really dissapointed with the paragon, especially since it plays very little role in pvp aswel...

King's Spectre · Jun 12, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

I agree. You can sometimes sneak into a FoW/UW group, but that's about it. I've even seen the odd 'sin doing ok in a P/B group.

Perynne · Jun 12, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I know I'm sticking my spoon into all kinds of soup with this, but..

I feel really sad that some people consider a class's worth only by how well they can farm, or how cookiecutter their builds can be. DoA is doable with a para in the group, you just gotta find a group that is not obsessed with the easy pre-made way through it. It's not the class's fault that too many people only want to do things quickly and mechanically rather than enjoying the gameplay for what it is.
Even if Anet changed things to make them more challenging, there'd always be people taking the easy and quick way out which automatically excludes half of the professions. My advice is: join a good guild, relax, and go have some fun with your guildies in any endgame area with any profession you want.

As for farming... I'm sure there are plenty para farming builds out there that just need to be discovered. Again, farming is very dominated by builds that others come up with and everyone ends up using over and over again simply because they don't have the motivation to make their own. Rather than complaining that paras are not good for farming because nobody has invented new builds for them, why not go out there and test your own builds? Come up with something inventive. Show people that paras are actually useful.

If all you want is more mechanical cut-and-paste builds for yourself for easy endgame areas and farming, then make a character purely for that and stop complaining when others are doing the same. Paragons are very much fun and challenging to play, especially when you don't want to do things "everyone else's way".
Anet has created a wonderful game with challenging areas to explore but it's narrow-minded gamers who never want any change who are truly spoiling them.

Teutonic Paladin · Jun 12, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

I wonder if a P/R Barrager would work (Like crit barrage) with things like Anthem of Flame and Anthem of Envy to pump up the entire teams damage while maintaining energy with "Go for the Eyes!" you might be able to get some B/P teams to let you in....

clawofcrimson · Jun 12, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

paragon's are more than viable in all areas of the pve game except DoA and soloing/farming.... apart from those areas, the reason for the pve hate is not the class abilities ...but the player base.

While I may agree with you all in many points... creating a thread to simply rant is not the answer. There are plenty of threads to discuss the fix to the problem ...which is (imho) much better than simply ranting.

paragon predicament:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10158216
whats missing on the paragon:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10162269
usefullness of paragon...
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10147943

closed.