Curse

pork soldier · Jun 15, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

and I seriously doubt pvp abusers care who they hurt. its up to anet to either take administrative action or find a better way to fix pvp without hurting pve

ROFL, you should also ask them to nerf PvE farming skills without affecting PvP....

O, hai, spirit bond. O, hai, Life Barrier.

Good luck with that

Surena · Jun 15, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

I don't mind them getting nerfed, let's hope they get deleted eventually or don't see any play at all. Same with Arsesassins and their teletardway, a class which has no single use in PvE and was never needed in PvP.
Good to see that Anet learned a bit and won't release GW2 with loads of different classes and thousands of skills.

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

ROFL, you should also ask them to nerf PvE farming skills without affecting PvP....

O, hai, spirit bond. O, hai, Life Barrier.

Good luck with that

nerf solo-farming without touching pvp? thats easy. make heroes and henchmen not take loot, and reinstate full loot scaling with no exceptions. tadah, no more overpowered solo farmers out there, and everyone can still make money. the skills will still function perfectly, but nobody will abuse them.

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

I don't mind them getting nerfed, let's hope they get deleted eventually or don't see any play at all. Same with Arsesassins and their teletardway, a class which has no single use in PvE and was never needed in PvP.
Good to see that Anet learned a bit and won't release GW2 with loads of different classes and thousands of skills.

assassins rock in pve, most people just don't know how to play em. really really good at taking out big targets quickly, and taking out the healer in a group before it can get off any heals... but then I guess theres people like you who have very narrow viewpoints about how a game can be played... god forbid we have a little variety, eh?

Surena · Jun 15, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

I never needed an Arsesassin to kill anything, and enemy monks don't get much off due to heavy AoE, not to forget that /Mesmer gives energy management and interruption at the same time (power drain, leech signet etc.), also on your monks.

Taking out single targets in PvE quickly and efficient? What a cheap justification. Why would you need that when you can roll over them?

Proving intelligence with variety doesn't work.

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

I never needed an Arsesassin to kill anything, and enemy monks don't get much off due to heavy AoE, not to forget that /Mesmer gives energy management and interruption at the same time (power drain, leech signet etc.), also on your monks.

Taking out single targets in PvE quickly and efficient? What a cheap justification. Why would you need that when you can roll over them?

Proving intelligence with variety doesn't work.

I never specifically needed a warrior, elementalist, ranger, necro, mesmer, ritualist, or dervish to kill anything either... the only class that is specifically needed in almost all areas is the monk. should we delete all classes but monks?

Surena · Jun 15, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Oh, big news, it's PvE! Most things work. If it works for you, fine then but what did the class add to the game positively? Variety? Please...

New classes caused loads of imbalances and brought in retarded concepts like teleporting through the map bashing 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, extreme defense AND offense at the same time, godmodes like the Avatar of Melandru and Ritard spike.

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

what did the assassin add to the game positively? hmm how about a counter to bodyblocking? how about A FUN EXPERIENCE? oh right forgot no one cares about fun anymore, its all about balance this, win everything, make everyone else suck

Surena · Jun 15, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Yeah, I forgot. A corpse for minionmasters.

Do you consider fighting horribly stupid AI as FUN? Do you consider a class which only has to press "1,2,3,4,5 - OUT" as FUN?

Jesus!!!111 Noone cares about challenge anymore, it's all about farming and titles and making all the other players look bad and cheap in their noob armour!!!!!!111

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Yeah, I forgot. A corpse for minionmasters.

Do you consider fighting horribly stupid AI as FUN? Do you consider a class which only has to press "1,2,3,4,5 - OUT" as FUN?

Jesus!!!111 Noone cares about challenge anymore, it's all about farming and titles and making all the other players look bad and cheap in their noob armour!!!!!!111

lol most classes are just as much about "press 1 2 3 4 5 out" as an assassin is. if you worry less about what you are doing, and more about what your character is doing, maybe you'll see the point. this is an RPG, not counterstrike. RPGs promote freedom of choice.

Surena · Jun 15, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

lol most classes are just as much about "press 1 2 3 4 5 out" as an assassin is. if you worry less about what you are doing, and more about what your character is doing, maybe you'll see the point. this is an RPG, not counterstrike. RPGs promote freedom of choice.

This game unfortunately lacks too much to be considered a RPG with freedom of choice. Speak of persistant worlds. That's to be changed with GW2 however.

The only thing an Assassin can do, his chain, that's the problem. He can't contribute much to a team. The class is just too one-dimensional. So Anet either ups the bonus damage to insane levels (remember BoS?) or recreates teleway. I would've liked them without chains, tricky like the Mesmer (in a physical way) but now it's too late to turn the wheel back and rework the mechanics, unfortunately.

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

This game unfortunately lacks too much to be considered a RPG with freedom of choice. Speak of persistant worlds. That's to be changed with GW2 however.

The only thing an Assassin can do, his chain, that's the problem. He can't contribute much to a team. The class is just too one-dimensional. So Anet either ups the bonus damage to insane levels (remember BoS?) or recreates teleway. I would've liked them without chains, tricky like the Mesmer (in a physical way) but now it's too late to turn the wheel back and rework the mechanics, unfortunately.

chains actually provide a lot more dimension than the untrained eye sees... theres a lot of little chain breaks, reversals, etc that can really vary a good build. some chains even involve something else entirely, like hexing the foe instead of using a lead attack. and really, how is an assassin chain that much worse than sever artery + gash?

Surena · Jun 15, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

chains actually provide a lot more dimension than the untrained eye sees... theres a lot of little chain breaks, reversals, etc that can really vary a good build. some chains even involve something else entirely, like hexing the foe instead of using a lead attack. and really, how is an assassin chain that much worse than sever artery + gash?

The sever-gash can overextend, bring utility, disrupt, KD without a chain (the win) and if he can't sever-gash (or the combo failed) he can just autoattack and still be a threat, unlike spiking every 20 seconds or by waving the hex-flag (ELLO! TIS IS EXPOWZ!!)

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

The sever-gash can overextend, bring utility, disrupt, KD without a chain (the win) and if he can't sever-gash (or the combo failed) he can just autoattack and still be a threat, unlike spiking every 20 seconds or by waving the hex-flag (ELLO! TIS IS EXPOWZ!!)

hehe some stances and enchants can actually make assassin autoattack quite deadly... high dagger mastery and high crit strikes with something to increase crit chance even more, add in sundering daggers... it can cause some real pain.

but really your kind of working towards the opposite point here... in that the classes are already underwhelming and yet they nerf em more and more... but this thread is about paragons, the biggest victim of it, so should probably stop the assassin debate heh

artay · Jun 15, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Give paragons some love, it must be hard running around in those tight skirts. (especially for the boys)

Miral · Jun 15, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by artay

Give paragons some love, it must be hard running around in those tight skirts. (especially for the boys)

heh especially considering they're made of metal eh?

-Byron- · Jun 15, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

The current crop of Paragons elites are not horrible, but they are no where near as good as those of any other class.

Although there are many, many ways to play a Paragon, but many of these roles are not exclusive to the Paragon. Its no wonder Paragons are marginalized by other classes and the general PVE community (however ignorantly); the class has almost no cookie-cutter builds. Paragons are usually reduced in PVE to playing supplemental, niche roles.

A point, though not conclusive, can be seen simply by going to Guildwiki and counting the PVE Paragon builds; there are only 5 of them, considerably less than any other class. Furthermore, three out of the five are merely melee paragons using warrior/dervish skills.

The small number of fresh,viable builds severely limit options and fun, while the ridiculous number of trash skills for a class with so few plague cripple build creativity. Very frustrating indeed.

This update was not as harmful to PVE Paragons as it could have been (defensive anthem's advantages over aegis are diminished over aegis in pve anyway). But its very aggravating for them not to fix the current situation.

Theus · Jun 15, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

At this point,making Paragon Shouts not effect other Paragon's doesn't sound so bad,as long as the Paragon's obtain the effectiveness of what their shouts used to be,I'd be all for it.Especially for skills like "Incoming!" to be fixed so it can be used in PvP to directly counter spike builds.

But alas,theres a Great chance that isn't going to happen.

On a different note..when you first found out about the Shout/Chanting/Echoing of a Paragon,did you immediately thought of it as a sort of Bard class?That was one of the main reasons why I wanted to play it so much..but now..after all the nerfing,not so much.

ArKaiN · Jun 16, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Jesus Christ this class got the shaft today. Your best skill is one that any class with high sunspear can use as effectively or better. Jesus, that was just cruel.

XvArchonvX · Jun 16, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArKaiN

Jesus Christ this class got the shaft today. Your best skill is one that any class with high sunspear can use as effectively or better. Jesus, that was just cruel.

The difference being that while it's a 15 energy skill for most classes, it costs less due to Leadership. That and the skill has better synergy with a paragon bar that may contain chants which work with shouts.

I'm not really sure what you are worried about. I've never heard of people having trouble finding a PuG just because they were a Paragon. Most of the time when someone can't find a PuG, it's because so many people Hero and Hench the game that PuGs are pretty few and far between.