Curse

Benandorf · Apr 24, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I recently got NF (yes, I'm slow, too bad), and have been enjoying playing with my Paragon. However, while I understand the role of a Dervish, I've yet to find one for Paragon. I'm currently working my way through the campaign and planning on making it defense (lots in command, some in Ld, and in tactics), but my question is: are paragons worth taking in groups? Am I viable pve without doing damage with spears? I like the armor-buffing build I'm using, but if it's just not worth it in the end (I.E. I don't help my party, human or henchie/hero), I'll make a Dervish instead.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Also, I care nothing for soloing with this guy, I have a good 55 monk to do that with.

clawofcrimson · Apr 24, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

yes they are... read the OP here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10144977

and read the threads in this forum..

Benandorf · Apr 24, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

I've read many of the threads on this forum, which leads me to worry that really the only way to play them to be semi-useful is to put 16 in spear mastery. And I don't like spears =\

Crazyvietguy · Apr 25, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Well as a paragon player myself, spears are essential to gain quick adrenaline, from range.

Now you can search the forums for a ToF Axe Paragon Build which works very well.

Or you can go 12 spear and high command and leadership and focus mainly on more damage output by the party and defense. OR you can go into motivation and focus on health and energy management for your party as well as defense buffs.

Its up to you

Benandorf · Apr 25, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I throw spears, of course, but at level 20 I still have some PoS 6-9 one. It gives me the adren I need, but doesn't dish damage.

Do I need to have spear mastery for any good builds? My current is 12+1+3 command, 9+1 ld and I believe 9 tactics.

Nkah Sennyt · Apr 25, 2007, 03:02 AM // 03:02

I prefer battery paragons - ie, restoration/zeal chants/shouts/etc. You don't really need a damage spear for that.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 25, 2007, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Paragon have DPS comparable to a warriors, but at range. You're really making a big mistake if you neglect to use your spear to it's fullest potential. Right now, command is pretty awesome. You can make some really snazzy command/spear/leadership builds, but I wouldn't bother too much with motivation.

Mr Templar · Apr 25, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Paragon have DPS comparable to a warriors, but at range. You're really making a big mistake if you neglect to use your spear to it's fullest potential. Right now, command is pretty awesome. You can make some really snazzy command/spear/leadership builds, but I wouldn't bother too much with motivation.

I take it you're more of an offensive Paragon then?

See with my paragon build i have:
15 Motivation, 10 Leadership, 9 Spear Mastery and 7 Tactics

This build is primarily defensive designed to help my party, focusing mainly on health management....occasionaly energy management too. At most i have 2 offensive skills (Spear of Lightning and then either Lightbringers Gaze or another Spear skill). I have found this to be a great build.

geekling · Apr 25, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Are Paragons useful...

Well that depends on your definition of useful. A decent player, no matter what class, can be useful in a party, in that it is preferable to a 7/8 party. But then again, a mending whammo can be useful by the same reasoning.

Unfortunably, after the nerfs to the paragon class, with anet's incompetence when it comes to balance the class in gimmick PvP-teams without destroying it for PvE. Just about anything a single paragon can do, another class can do better, much better.

So, yes, paragons are worth taking in a group. If the group in question is the kind of group that plays to have cooperative-fun not maximum efficiency. That don't mind that that slot in the party probably could be "better" filled by Zhed as a SF nuker, Olias as a MM, or an other hero monk.
The question is, how many of those groups is there out there in GW-land?

It might not be so much that the paragon is bad, per-se. As it does not excel at anything.

clawofcrimson · Apr 25, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekling

It might not be so much that the paragon is bad, per-se. As it does not excel at anything.

With higher base dps than axes and swords.... I'd say the paragon excels at damage. That's why you see so many spear/command builds, The paragon excels at pressure damage and overall team damage output... as well as have some decent supportive skills (condition removal, hard rez, team speed/armour buff etc...) exactly what a midliner should do.

You wouldnt expect a warrior to have no weapon skills... why expect this from the paragon... (in most cases anyway...the bip build for instance would be one exception) with the current state of the motivation line, you shouldnt expect too much from that anyway, apart from all paragon teams.

Benandorf · Apr 25, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

*sigh* Well, thanks for the advice, though it seems to be pointing in the direction I had hoped it didn't. I have a level 20 warriors, and have had him for almost 2 full years now (his 2nd birthday is in the next week, I believe). And I have a ranger, who I've had and played with through the better parts of Factions and Prophecies. So I have no wish for another basic DPS class; when I made my paragon, I wanted command/tactics to make sure my team does its thing better.

Also, an update from before, I'm starting to notice that my allies do much better with me than without me. It's very obvious when you have 10 minions running around, where "Go for the eyes!" really spikes damage.

clawofcrimson · Apr 25, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

ya..

the command line has skills that are very good at adding damage... and to be honest I was hoping the same thing for the paragon... Let's just hope for some nice skills in GW:EN.

Pick Me · Apr 25, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benandorf

*sigh* Well, thanks for the advice, though it seems to be pointing in the direction I had hoped it didn't. I have a level 20 warriors, and have had him for almost 2 full years now (his 2nd birthday is in the next week, I believe). And I have a ranger, who I've had and played with through the better parts of Factions and Prophecies. So I have no wish for another basic DPS class; when I made my paragon, I wanted command/tactics to make sure my team does its thing better.

Also, an update from before, I'm starting to notice that my allies do much better with me than without me. It's very obvious when you have 10 minions running around, where "Go for the eyes!" really spikes damage.

I suppose you can go Leadership, Motivation and Command and have 0 into spears. I don't know if Never Surrender will give minions health regen or not.

Spam shouts can still be the way of the Paragon. True, they changed the effectiveness of the shouts, and buffed the spear mastery. But then again, who said you had to go with spear mastery to be a good party paragon? If your party can do loads of damage without you, then go with pure shouts. You can help the monks out by giving them energy, giving the party healing, removing conditions, maybe removing hexes (Hexbreaker Aria), etc.

pingu666 · Apr 26, 2007, 12:07 AM // 00:07

think i run 12spear, 14/15 command for breakpoint on the party heal one, 8 leadership and 7 tatics. works pretty well

.

theres a second spike vs party tho, when syg and aegis stop XD

Dutch Masterr · Apr 26, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Personally, i hate paragons. Yes, they can be usefull backup and decent offense, but to me it seems like whatever a paragon can do, another class can do just as good or better.

Benandorf · Apr 26, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

Personally, i hate paragons. Yes, they can be usefull backup and decent offense, but to me it seems like whatever a paragon can do, another class can do just as good or better.

After playing the paragon for a while, I have to agree that anything he can do another class can do better. However, that being said, he can do more than one of them at once, while the other classes do a single one, albeit better.

So he has a place in parties, I think he is just misunderstood.

And that also means I've sorta answered my own original question :P

pingu666 · Apr 26, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

think i run 12spear, 14/15 command for breakpoint on the party heal one, 8 leadership and 7 tatics. works pretty well

.

theres a second spike vs party tho, when syg and aegis stop XD

Prof Of Black · May 16, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Paragons own.

Range, good ias, pretty high dmg.

Nice conditions, like cruel spear, blazing spear, anthem of flame.
They even own in Pvp!

~Prof.

bungusmaximus · May 16, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Yeah, throw in [skill]ebon dust aura[/skill] and an ebon spear and you have a pretty mean durable blindbot ^^.

clawofcrimson · May 16, 2007, 10:48 PM // 22:48

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...=451095&page=9

here is some interesting discussion on the paragon.