Curse

MrSlayer · Apr 19, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

This is a PvE-based thread

I know that a team with a Paragon in it has a very good chance of doing well...if the Paragon knows how to best utilise his/her class. I've seen people switch from the triage-classes to a Para, and do amazingly well with it, and I have decided to give it a go. But I don't want to take a potentially great class, and then use it poorly and end up being no use to anyone. So...

I figure I can only learn to use a Paragon by playing it, reading up on it, asking people who know about it, and having decent builds. I'm reading threads in this section for most of that, but there are so many builds, I am at a complete loss as to which to use, since I don't have enough of my life spare to try every single one. I just want to get a general consensus of what people think the most useful builds for PvE. And I want to be able to play an offensive role and a support role just as well as each other, and I don't know anyone in-game with enough paragon-knowledge to assist me with figuring it out xD.

I've seen alot of use of Paragons with things such as Expel Hexes or BiP, which seems odd, but makes sense when you see the rest of the bar. If I'm going to be running around with hero's, I'll also be aiming towards using something like Racthoh's (I apologise if I have spelt that wrong >.<) paraway set-up.

So where do I start with all this? Any blundering idiot can throw spears at an enemy with relative ease, so I think I'm gonna aim to try and work my head around running support. So here are my main questions...

1) What sort of builds are good for support? I'm talking...which work best with BiP, Expel Hexes and also pure-paragon bars. Links to threads with builds aren't so helpful unless you can give me a post number or something, as threads tend to be awash with builds. Such as the general Paragon thread in this section. Waaay too much for me to take in in 1 sitting.
2) If I am doing well at playing a support position, am I more likely to notice a decrease in recieved damage, or just an increase in the number of living players overall? What I guess I mean here is...how do I tell if I'm doing well? With something like a Monk, I'll see numbers and red bars dancing up and down; with a Rit, I'd see explosions of light and damage around allies or enemy from various channelling spells. What gives away that I'm doing a good job or a bad job (other than dead team mates) when playing a Para as a support character?

For now, I think that's it. Apologies for the random questions, and by all means, if there is another thread, please link me too it; saying "use search lol" isn't helpful at all. This is a great class, and I like what I have done with it so far. But I want to be able to use it like it's meant to be used, and not just bumble along being an average guy playing a weird class >.<

Gift3d · Apr 19, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Imbagon
This sums it up, pretty much. There's only 3-4 necessary skills in this build, so it gives you a lot of leverage to do what you want with it.

I could only assume you're talking about PvE, because in HA/GvG you shouldn't be sitting there thinking of your own build to randomly go in with.

MrSlayer · Apr 19, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gift3d

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Imbagon
This sums it up, pretty much. There's only 3-4 necessary skills in this build, so it gives you a lot of leverage to do what you want with it.

I could only assume you're talking about PvE, because in HA/GvG you shouldn't be sitting there thinking of your own build to randomly go in with.

Yes PvE sorry. I'll go edit my original post.

Richardt · Apr 19, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Alot of the weirder builds like using BiP and Expel Hexes are kinda specific to one thing-they are not really designed for every day use.

The key to being a paragon is realizing that while they have a great support potential, they can also have a great damage potential. Utilizing a full support build is using only half of the paragon's potential.

Depending on your shouts, you yourself will not really notice much in the away of effects-you have to rely on your teammates for that one. For example, with Save Yourselves! (yes it is a warrior shout :P), you only really notice if it's working if your teammates let you know that they're only taking like a couple points of damage. I would say about half the paragon shouts work that way. Others like Ballad of Restoration or Song of Restoration you'll notice an effect.

And yes the amount of information available was overwhelming to me too at first. I would just lurk in the Paragon basics thread-my first Para build was a SoR build from there and it did great until I could play Imbagon. It also has several great builds utilizing things like Cruel Spear as well.

the ruloes · Apr 19, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

For PvE, the imbagon that Gift3d posted is, more or less, the best build to run.

Zokocow · Apr 19, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I usually run the imbagon for general party buffs but one of the great things I love about a Paragon is their versatility. For example, if I'm rolling with a group that is ele heavy using burning skills than "They're on Fire!" is an amazing skill to bring along. Also, you can bring Anthem of Flame + "They're on Fire!" to help suppress some of the damage that is being taken.

I played without imbagon for the longest time until I found the build on PvX and pretty much as long as you bring a cohesive build than the party will love you.

I Can Cure Cancer · Apr 19, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

There are some area specific builds, but for the most part the imbagon can be used anywhere as long as there isn't a lot of anti-physical enchants, stances, or conditions flying around. The onl downside is you need to grind a r3 kurzick or luxon title.

MrSlayer · Apr 20, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

I'm a r3 Luxon already, and I have a bunch of friends who have offered to hfff me to survivor r3 if I just provide someone to give them company whilst they do it xD so I could easily get Kurzick r3 instead if needed (I think my luxon rank is actually 4...o_O).

I like the look of Imbagon...seems fairly win.

I usually run with SF eles, but I'm determined to get Hayda on my Para, and give the paraway a try.

Richardt...I think I forgot to mention, or mention clearly, that I've been running damage-para up too now, and I love it. The attack speed and the damage, especially with the +33% attack speed buff, is insanely awesome. But I want to be able to run support too :P

Richardt · Apr 20, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I love the para damage

Being able to hit for 150 damage on a warrior with a non-elite attack skill is awesome. It's rare, but it happens.

EDIT: I feel that it has to be said-Para support isn't just negating damage. The Command and Motivation line have some good support skills where you can increase damage, give some healing and energy, move faster, gives armor etc, and the Leadership line has a couple skills to cause some condition pressure (i.e. Burning).

Zsig · Apr 20, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

You can't say precisely how effective you are being to the party from the shouts and chants and whatnot, tho i have to say that if you do it right they are pretty effective.

The only time i could know for sure was on a Tombs run (not the general B/P team build). We had only one monk and me as full support. Anyway, about halfway through the end the monk said (frustrated):"Motigons are so broken".

Really, anyone would notice that he wasn't needed there. Though, i have to say that this was about 2 months ago, before the recent nerfs to SoR.

I for one don't like much the Imbagon build because it's too limited, you'll use about 6 skills there that can't be swapped... and i like to test stuff, and I often get bored pretty quick if i use the same build over and over and over.

Helping making up a paragon build is kinda complicated because just like the mesmer, it all goes according to the situation presented to the party, although, a good start looks something like this:

[Signet of Return][aggressive refrain]["go for the eyes!"]

You can't be wrong if you go with these 3 even without ranks in Command. Then next thing should be an easily spammable Chant to keep up AR, such as:

[anthem of weariness][anthem of flame]
Alternatively, if you're running a Motigon build you'll need 2 Chants since it's hard to find one that do the job in there, and most people usually bring [song of restoration] and [ballad of restoration] alternating between both to keep Aggressive Refrain up all the time. I'm not sure if it's still possible due to the 30 seconds recharge imposed on both skills on the last update.

What follows next is up to personal preferences. If you're going for damage pressure + decent support you'll bring at least one Spear Attack of your choice, if not, you can add up more support. Check your party builds to see what they're running and how you could help them. For example, if you have a team composed of lots of physical damage dealers, a skill such as [anthem of envy] could be useful, if you're mostly going with spellcasters then [aria of zeal] would be a better option.

Anyway, it's hard to help because most people that uses paragons (ok, i don't know that, but at least i do) often changes the build according to the situation, which makes it very hard to set up one single build to use and run all around (even though the presented Imbagon is an excellent exception).

The hardest part when making up a paragon build is taking the Elite. Sometimes no paragon elite will achieve what you want for the build. And that's the sad reality of paragons, lack of decent Elites. Most often you'll see yourself using one of these: [song of restoration] [song of purification] [cruel spear](<-your own personal ranged and broken Eviscerate) [defensive anthem] [focused anger] (<-for the Imbagon, mostly) [soldier's fury] (<-i personally like this one in AB). Some others even though they look cool, are overshadowed by one in this list (that if i didn't miss any). And on some other occasions you'll be using another's Elites, like you said yourself [Expel Hexes] , or ["Coward!"] (<-this one is particularly pretty fun) and many others.

Finally, you don't NEED to get your Kurzick title to rank 4 and get the skill "Save Yourselves!" , there is the Luxon skill with exact same name and functionality. And since you said you already got Luxon r3 or 4 ... it's already good enough.

Crap, sorry for the long post.
Anyway, what I posted here is basicly from my experience, and others could very well not agree with it. Hope you find it useful.

MrSlayer · Apr 20, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsig

*snip long and helpful post*

Thanks!

I was just thinking of getting the Kurzick rank up because my alliance has now become Kurzick, so my luxon rank is unlikely to go any higher than 4, and thus my skill won't get any better.

I've heard alot of people talk about Paragon's not having decent elites...although alot of them look useful if you can bring the right on.

A really useful post. Thanks! I shall be looking back over it a few times methinks

JONO51 · Apr 20, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Usually I run imbagon, but I also like to run this:
[Spear of [email protected]][Vicious [email protected]][Go for the [email protected]][Defensive [email protected]][Theres Nothing to fear][Stand Your [email protected]][Aggressive [email protected]][Signet of [email protected]]
12+1+1 leadership
9+1 spear
9+1 command.

I find it has a nice balance of both offence and defence. With regards to knowing if your doing your job well.. usually party memebers wont be dropping much health at all, proabbly not below about 70% especially if you are running imbagon. You can only really get the team killed if you do crazy aggro or something.

Zsig · Apr 20, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

"Save Yourselves!" lasts 4 seconds starting at rank 3 and only changes to 5 seconds when you reach rank 7 (which IMO is not worth the time spent if your only purpose is SY!). Up to you.

One thing i forgot to mention is that, as it happens with any starting character (unless you have plenty of money) is the lack of skills. It's hard to get the most useful skills you want, because lots of them looks useful when you first look at them. One good thing about the paragons, is that, just like the dervishes you don't have many skills to get like the Elementalist for example.

A good way of getting lots of skills without spending much, is by using the Hero Skill Points, you can get over 30 skills from them just in Elona, and then some more on EotN. A good way of getting these hero skill points is by getting ranks in the EotN reputation titles (each rank will give you 2 hero points iirc, against 1 hero skill point from sunspear/lightbringer).

This alone should provide you over half the paragon skills (excluding the elites, of course)

If you have money just buy a bunch of times and good luck