Curse

Stolen Souls · Dec 04, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Shhhh! Quiet! Next thing you know, Izzy will add exhaustion to every paragon skill! >.<

Ursan needs a nerf long before paragons do....

Dev121 · Dec 04, 2007, 12:05 AM // 00:05

My input shall be:

PARAGONS F T W YS PLZ

Most fun I've had with a prof in ages, if it gets nerfed more it'll still be overpowered. As for changing 'Save Yourselfs' we all know anet had that in mind for paragons, just leave it, its not doing any harm. It is PvE after all and people are still using Ursan.

You can't see me · Dec 04, 2007, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

yes..everyone in the damn game can be shut down, we're talking about degrees here, not absolutes. You're totally missing the point.

oh god, vocal minority, used by all of two monsters in the game. How the hell does your input have any relevance to the overall picture of the game?

edit: this was a rhetorical question, because your input is useless and has no relevance to why paragons are so overpowered in the first place. I don't go around going 'oh look, warriors can be blinded, that must make necromancers better for single target dps'.

I take it your not great at reading between the lines. Let me make it clearer.

Three attributes, including the prime attribute of Paragons Rely on Shouts, Chants, and echos, that are all rendered useless with Vocal Minority and Well of Silence, which is used by a lot more than the undead. I know of no other skill in the game that can render three attributes totally unusable with that low energy cost and cast time, not to mention duration.

The PvP side of it: VM is the ultamite paragon/shout warrior counter. It's one skill on the necro's bar in a favorite attribute in PvP. Paragons are anything but over powered there.

The PvE side of it: Paragon's with TNtF + SY are the opposite of Ursan Tanks. A totally defensive and smashing good skills. Paragons are not the only class where PvE skills could be considered over powered, and since I have no objection to Ursan Blessing, (See my reply on the nerf thread), I don't see Paragon's DR as a problem.

That should clear things up for you.

Dev121 · Dec 04, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

It's PvE = Ursan has made nearly all titles redundant so it doesnt matter now.

SleepyLuxon · Dec 04, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

your worried about Paragons who are actually pretty fine right now when there is Ursan Blessing?

cellardweller · Dec 04, 2007, 12:16 AM // 00:16

TNTF/SY paras are the worst of the lot, closely followed by DS/SY warriors, Ursan anythings and CoP Spammers.

WTB a guildwars without pve skills or title effects.

Age · Dec 04, 2007, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyLuxon

your worried about Paragons who are actually pretty fine right now when there is Ursan Blessing?

What a dirty thought.

SleepyLuxon · Dec 04, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

What a dirty thought.

the irony, is that according to the OP Im supposed to feel Dirty for playing a Paragon in PvE.

Rexion · Dec 04, 2007, 12:33 AM // 00:33

just think... thank god ANet didn't call them "trojans"

Xx_Sorin_xX · Dec 04, 2007, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

i feel dirty when i throw a rod around with no pants on. who doesn't?

*gasp*
SEEZ WHAATZ I DEDS THER?

I DUN GET IT

Trub · Dec 04, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

*Shoves all the paragons into the wash tub*
nasty..nasty..nasty.
I don't think Paragons, and those that associate with them are dirty at all....just a little messy maybe.
__________________
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YunSooJin · Dec 04, 2007, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

I take it your not great at reading between the lines. Let me make it clearer.

Three attributes, including the prime attribute of Paragons Rely on Shouts, Chants, and echos, that are all rendered useless with Vocal Minority and Well of Silence, which is used by a lot more than the undead. I know of no other skill in the game that can render three attributes totally unusable with that low energy cost and cast time, not to mention duration.

The PvP side of it: VM is the ultamite paragon/shout warrior counter. It's one skill on the necro's bar in a favorite attribute in PvP. Paragons are anything but over powered there.

The PvE side of it: Paragon's with TNtF + SY are the opposite of Ursan Tanks. A totally defensive and smashing good skills. Paragons are not the only class where PvE skills could be considered over powered, and since I have no objection to Ursan Blessing, (See my reply on the nerf thread), I don't see Paragon's DR as a problem.

That should clear things up for you.

I'm not reading between the lines?

You're advocating an indefensible position based on the premises that because a couple monsters use an extremely narrow range of skills that this justifies how broken paragons are as a class?

I can sit around and spew other related garbage the way you do going 'OH LOL SHADOW FORM SUX BECUZ MONSTERS HAVE RENDING TOUCH LOL' (the reason why shadow form sucks is a different one entirely). A stupid hex and a situational well wielded by some monsters in Elona that one spends a couple hours fighting at max affects paragons in no shape or form.

Paragons apply partywide armor that can't be disrupted precluding a hex. To argue hexes balances paragons is to be the village idiot, because there is a hex to disrupt the gameplay of any class, paragons nonwithstanding. To argue conditions is the follow the same route, seeing as how any profession would suffer being blinded or dazed. While other classes have defensive means, they can be stripped (enchantments), killed (spirits, with long recharges), or be interrupted (well..except some warrior shouts). The thing that makes paragons so great is because they're entire basis of gameplay is evolved around a broken mechanic - shouts. While shouts were not so bad before paragons were introduced, this was largely because there were no shout skills that were broken.

Oh, and nice try with the 'pvp side' of it. You just go about proving you have no clue. Lol, vocal minority in pvp, biggest joke. And fyi, Ursan Blessing is a P V E skill. Paragons were broken before P V E skills were introduced.

kvndoom · Dec 04, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

just think... thank god ANet didn't call them "trojans"

I woulda named mine "Magnum X X L" without a moment's hesitation.

Wildi · Dec 04, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

The entire motivation line needs a buff or a rework.

Grammar · Dec 04, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Just be thankful that heroes can't use PvE skills.

MsMassacre · Dec 04, 2007, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Yes, that exact build is very potent. I use it when I vanguish with my para. The PROBLEM arises when I try to do ANYTHING ELSE with her. In 95% of pve, that level of damage reduction is just not nessecary, and all the non-pve para skills have been nerfed in to the ground thanks to whiny pve'ers who cannot adapt to a new class actually making an impact on the metagame.

And almost every paragon skill NOT listed in that build is either:

A. Godawful (Lyric of Zeal)
B. Broken (Mighty Throw)
C. Too similar to another para skill (Burning Refrain & Blazing Finale, The 5 or 6 attack skills which all cause conditional deep wounds, etc)

Also, as a side note, re counter spells;

When a monk goes in to an area with heavy enchant removal, he just brings a less enchant-oriented build. No biggie.

When a para goes in to an area that has anti-shout skills or visions of regret, etc. he is BAGGAGE. Perhaps if he had more than 7 useful skills, he could make a build that didn't use shouts or require adrenaline, but that is not presently the state of things.

You can't see me · Dec 04, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I'm not reading between the lines?

You're advocating an indefensible position based on the premises that because a couple monsters use an extremely narrow range of skills that this justifies how broken paragons are as a class?

I can sit around and spew other related garbage the way you do going 'OH LOL SHADOW FORM SUX BECUZ MONSTERS HAVE RENDING TOUCH LOL' (the reason why shadow form sucks is a different one entirely). A stupid hex and a situational well wielded by some monsters in Elona that one spends a couple hours fighting at max affects paragons in no shape or form.

Paragons apply partywide armor that can't be disrupted precluding a hex. To argue hexes balances paragons is to be the village idiot, because there is a hex to disrupt the gameplay of any class, paragons nonwithstanding. To argue conditions is the follow the same route, seeing as how any profession would suffer being blinded or dazed. While other classes have defensive means, they can be stripped (enchantments), killed (spirits, with long recharges), or be interrupted (well..except some warrior shouts). The thing that makes paragons so great is because they're entire basis of gameplay is evolved around a broken mechanic - shouts. While shouts were not so bad before paragons were introduced, this was largely because there were no shout skills that were broken.

Oh, and nice try with the 'pvp side' of it. You just go about proving you have no clue. Lol, vocal minority in pvp, biggest joke. And fyi, Ursan Blessing is a P V E skill. Paragons were broken before P V E skills were introduced.

Just as I can go arounf spewing +1's without any thought to random posts saying "nEwB you HAV3 n0 p0in7 STfU", and yet I don't, as you should refrain from doing the same.

As for the PvP side, care to back it up, instead of insulting the idea like an idiot? You obviously never tried the skill in PvP and therefore have nothing to back up your point.

By the way, you totally missed that weapon spells have no means of removal, when you said that shouts are the only thing. Using your logic, I can claim ritualists are over powered because there is no way to remove them, however, they are spells, and can be shut down with many skills. Shouts can be entirely shut down, however, with two skills, that are indeed far more than a joke.

I bring up the PvE skills because that's the main thing people are arguing about back and forth about. You're kind of missing the point here.

I'm done debating with you. You don't even back up your point with any solid fact. Your post is just a QQ on shouts.

Savio · Dec 04, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMassacre

When a para goes in to an area that has anti-shout skills or visions of regret, etc. he waits 2 seconds for his team to eliminate the problem, then goes back to what he normally does.

Fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Shouts can be entirely shut down, however, with two skills, that are indeed far more than a joke.

No they're not.

Trub · Dec 04, 2007, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMassacre
When a para goes in to an area that has anti-shout skills or visions of regret, etc. he waits 2 seconds for his team to eliminate the problem, then goes back to what he normally does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Fixed.

789101112

Thankies savio.
Now get back in there and save the wallows!

___________________
PvE Helpful Hint Numero Uno: c+Space=WIN.

Esan · Dec 04, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsMassacre

all the non-pve para skills have been nerfed in to the ground thanks to whiny pve'ers who cannot adapt to a new class actually making an impact on the metagame.

Since when have PvEers cared about the meta? I doubt 90% of PvEers are even dimly aware of what paras have done to PvP.