Curse

lustnlood · Jun 23, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

please check this build out and rate it if it isn't too much trouble.. thnx

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Invincagons

[Morkai] · Jun 23, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Looks ok for the likes of FoW i guess.

Not too sure about other stuff, i'd love to give it a try after Survivor on my Paragon.

joshuarodger · Jun 23, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

didn't really look at the build too much and don't know much about paragons so no real advice there. but on all except the first paragon, you put

leadership: x
spear mastery: x+1+1
command/motivation: x+1+1

you can't have x+1+1 in 2 attributes unless you're switching headgear, in which case you should specify that.

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Isn't Incoming and an Imbagon kinda...overkill?

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

No orders?
Hopefully, no monsters with blocking.

Certainly have the defenses, although not sure about damage.

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Looking at spear damage, you will find your answer.

Brian the Gladiator · Jun 23, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

The build is nothing new... It's kind of irrelevant because you can do much better with a balanced team and you will never find 8 paragons to go do stuff with.

I don't know if you have tryed it already but you may need some spike heals in there because places like the asuran areas with raptors, you may get spiked on. I bet this build epicly fails in that area just because of all the blocking and you have no blocking at all in your build...

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Looking at spear damage, you will find your answer.

If there is no blocking (hopefully no monsters with Aegis), no abundance of anti-melee hexes (has only 2 cure hexes 12s recharge each), no blind or weakness (the only condition removal he has is that single SoP Paragon), sure.

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

1. You could easily fit Expel Hexes on one of them bars.
2. SoP is an extremely strong condition removal in general.
3. Why would you need blind or weakness when you have 82.3% + 32% + 50% damage mitigation?
4. Blocking can be workable.

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

1. You could easily fit Expel Hexes on one of them bars.

Not saying you cant improve on it. But we are asked to comment on the build as it is.

Quote:

2. SoP is an extremely strong condition removal in general.

Having only one condition removal on only one Paragon is risky.

Quote:

3. Why would you need blind or weakness when you have 82.3% + 32% + 50% damage mitigation?

I said blind or weakness on the paragon team.

Quote:

4. Blocking can be workable.

I am not a fan of single profession teams. They all fall prey to the same weaknesses.

Also, it will be a pain killing certain monsters without enchant removal.

Richardt · Jun 23, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

You're Imbagon needs a bit of work-since it exists pretty much to pump out SY!, why have two other adrenal skills on that bar? You have 4 other paras putting out GftE, so having one more won't be missed. You're better off sticking another skill in it's place (like Finish Him! for example).

You're SoP para should have [spear of redemption] incase they get blinded.

I'm confused as to why you used [fall back] onto two of the bars. I can see perhaps in a "retreat" scenario, but honestly, with that much damage reduction, if you're needing to retreat, your party is pretty much doomed.

I'd also give some of your Incomming paras more stance removal.

On hex removal-[cure hex] isn't bad-but why not take [remove hex] instead? 4 sec. off the recharge and you're not missing much. In hex heavy areas, I'd suggest loading a couple of 'em up with [hex eater signet] in addition-so two with remove, and 2 more with hex eater-should keep you free of annoying hexes that will shut this build down (like [vocal minority] and [soothing images]).

[We shall return] isn't really needed-once again, with that much damage mitigation, if you're taking enough damage that your party is dying-you're doomed.

[zealous anthem] on one of your SoR's again isn't needed-you have enough adrenal shouts that your paras should be swimming in energy. I'd take it out for another spear attack or some sort of utility.

For your first Incomming para, I'd stick in another adrenal shout-you got alot of high energy shouts there and a bit more energy might help. [anthem of envy] would be a nice choice.

I'd also recommend [signet of synergy] over [mending refrain].

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Having only one condition removal on only one Paragon is risky.

It's party wide and removes on skill use. It also removes around 3 conditions and has an adrenaline cost of 5.

Quote:

I'm not a fan of single profession teams. They all fall prey to the same weaknesses.

Also, it will be a pain killing certain monsters without enchant removal.

Secondary professions allow a little extra diversity, and Paragons happen to have infinite energy so...

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

It's party wide and removes on skill use. It also removes around 3 conditions and has an adrenaline cost of 5.

Still risky, what happens if that particular Paragon dies (no matter how unlikely), or get hexed with vocal minority or can't gain adrenaline fast enough because he is blinded or hexed.

Quote:

Secondary professions allow a little extra diversity, and Paragons happen to have infinite energy so...

The only secondary skill I see in that build are the two Cure Hex.

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Still risky, what happens if that particular Paragon dies (no matter how unlikely), or get hexed with vocal minority or can't gain adrenaline fast enough because he is blinded or hexed.

A: If anything dying, you're either bad or against dinos.
B: I believe the mechanics of SoP are the same as Assassin's Remedy. It removes before an attack skill actually hits. If not, I'm sure there would be a shout usable at that time while SoP is up.

Quote:

The only secondary skill I see in that build are the two Cure Hex.

Last time I checked you could change secondaries and change your skill bar.

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

A: If anything dying, you're either bad or against dinos.
B: I believe the mechanics of SoP are the same as Assassin's Remedy. It removes before an attack skill actually hits.

Not if you cant cast SoP in the first place (read my post again).

Quote:

Last time I checked you could change secondaries and change your skill bar.

Last I checked we are suppose to comment on this specific build:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Invincagons

Tyla · Jun 23, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Comment, discuss and improve.

As for not being able to cast SoP in the first place, you're bound to have 5 adrenaline by the time anything that has the potential to maintain blind on you. It can't and shouldn't blind the whole team, and think about it; you can manipulate the AI easily.

Richardt · Jun 23, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Having Spear of Redemption on the SoP will help on the condition removal.

It's not full proof, but it's pretty easy to get 3 adrenaline from various sources.

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Comment, discuss and improve.

As for not being able to cast SoP in the first place, you're bound to have 5 adrenaline by the time anything that has the potential to maintain blind on you. It can't and shouldn't blind the whole team, and think about it; you can manipulate the AI easily.

Perhaps, but if this is a mixed team, it would not be an issue. There are skills that AoE blind, depending on how bunched up they are, the damage output can drop significantly.

-Lotus- · Jun 24, 2008, 03:46 AM // 03:46

-orders
-take 2 IMBAgons if you arent confident in 1, no need for incomming.
-anti-blocking
-youre never going to get 8 paragons in 1 party

Tyla · Jun 24, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

AoE blind? Where?

I've vanquished most areas on my Ranger, and never noticed AoE blind. Maybe except for the Blinding Surge boss ofcourse.