Curse

Princess Pwnage · Jun 01, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I know that Aggressive Refrain is the standard IAS for any paragon, and thus Imbagon. But I was thinking, it only increases attack speed 25%, lowers your armor by 20, and its obnoxious to cast anthem of flame every 10 seconds to keep it up. So why not tap into the warrior side of an imbagon and use either flurry, frenzy, or flail.

Flurry could work if you don't care about damage, personally, my imbagon is mainly to reduce damage, and the damage output is a nice little bonus. Plus with all the SY! and other shouts you'll have plenty of energy. It also increases attack speed by 33% instead of 25% like AR.

Frenzy is the same as above except it lets you keep the nice damage. Since you're a paragon you don't have to worry too much about getting attacked...until you use SY and all the baddies target the 100 less armor target, so that might be a problem. This double damage also makes the -20 armor from Aggressive Refrain irrelevant. But on the otherhand, monks will probably (hopefully) be concentrating on you more since you're the main target, so it may even out.

Finally, there's Flail, which will last for 5 seconds with 0 str. If you have a long lasting SY, or adrenaline isn't much of a problem, I feel like this would probably be the best option.

Please comment with what you think of this. I'm sure I skipped some important stuff so correct my wrongdoings please.

[DE] · Jun 01, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Since when did Imbagons bring Anthem of Flame? Aggressive Refrain is mainly kept up by TNTF and SY.

edit: ups, forgot SY doesn't affect yourself. Regardless TNTF let's you keep it up 24/7

Mitchel · Jun 01, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

You could try Drunken Master, but then you'd have to take out a PvE skill.

Princess Pwnage · Jun 01, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Well first SY doesn't help at all cause it doesn't affect you. I really don't wanna cast AR at the beginning of every battle and drain my energy. And I don't wanna cast TNtF outside of battle to help keep up AR, I'd rather use Anthem of Flame and make sure that TNtF is charged for battle.

Nightow · Jun 01, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

12 Leadership only gives you back a max of 6 energy. Trying to keep it up outside of battle could be costly if someone has to afk and sorry for going off topic but if you really wanted to reduce dmg, bring [anthem of weariness].

petrorabbit · Jun 01, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Pwnage

I know that Aggressive Refrain is the standard IAS for any paragon, and thus Imbagon. But I was thinking, it only increases attack speed 25%, lowers your armor by 20, and its obnoxious to cast anthem of flame every 10 seconds to keep it up. So why not tap into the warrior side of an imbagon and use either flurry, frenzy, or flail.

Flurry could work if you don't care about damage, personally, my imbagon is mainly to reduce damage, and the damage output is a nice little bonus. Plus with all the SY! and other shouts you'll have plenty of energy. It also increases attack speed by 33% instead of 25% like AR.

Frenzy is the same as above except it lets you keep the nice damage. Since you're a paragon you don't have to worry too much about getting attacked...until you use SY and all the baddies target the 100 less armor target, so that might be a problem. This double damage also makes the -20 armor from Aggressive Refrain irrelevant. But on the otherhand, monks will probably (hopefully) be concentrating on you more since you're the main target, so it may even out.

Finally, there's Flail, which will last for 5 seconds with 0 str. If you have a long lasting SY, or adrenaline isn't much of a problem, I feel like this would probably be the best option.

Please comment with what you think of this. I'm sure I skipped some important stuff so correct my wrongdoings please.

Personally, i use flail, its fairly easy to maintain, and easy to get enough adrenaline to start it. The duration is short enough that you're not slowed for too long. The only downside is it can slightly throw off you SY cycles, but that can be easily compensated for with a little attention.

Besides, its funny to see a spear turret in action.

Bo Fairfield · Jun 01, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

[build=OQGjUqmIKTWYAhxgPYhfpbubybA]
That's what my para uses... I use a sup leadership hat at the start when I first cast AR, so I get 26 seconds in which to renew. that means I only have to cast [[Anthem of Weariness] every once in a while, not at all if it's a quick group, so it really isn't that big of a deal.
I know it doesn't have EBSoH, but I like having a res, and gfte is awesome

uby · Jun 01, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

the alternative to [Aggressive Refrain][Focused Anger] is [Soldier's Fury][For Great Justice][Enduring Harmony]. it takes up an extra skill slot, but the adrenaline gain is about the same over time and you don't deal with cracked armor. There is a long 15 second period of time where you don't have increased adrenaline gain, during which time you won't be able to keep up SY constantly.

edit to add: 25% IAS means attack rate of 1.13 per second for spear, versus 1.00 per second at 33% IAS. meaning, ignoring adrenaline modifiers, you gain 13% more adrenaline using a 33% IAS versus 25% IAS. focused anger at 12 leadership (typical value for imbagon) is 120% adren gain with 25% downtime. FGJ+Enduring Harmony is 100% adren gain with 33% downtime. so, they are almost identical in terms of adren gain rate. 4 strikes either way to renew SY.

knoll · Jun 01, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

12 Leadership only gives you back a max of 6 energy. Trying to keep it up outside of battle could be costly if someone has to afk and sorry for going off topic but if you really wanted to reduce dmg, bring [anthem of weariness].

It is easy to keep it up. You are doing it wrong.

Racthoh · Jun 01, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Pwnage

Plus with all the SY! and other shouts you'll have plenty of energy.

Aggressive Refrain is a one time 25 energy use, after 5 uses of Flurry you're using more energy to keep up your IAS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Pwnage

Frenzy

Aggressive Refrain is better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess Pwnage

Finally, there's Flail, which will last for 5 seconds with 0 str. If you have a long lasting SY, or adrenaline isn't much of a problem, I feel like this would probably be the best option.

In a perfect world without blocks, miss hexes, and Soothing Images maybe. That and Aggressive Refrain not existing.

Zsig · Jun 01, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

You don't want to use AR before battles start because you don't want to waste your precious 25 energy. Ok, that I understand.... but.

What else would you use your energy for?

Providing you have no Death Penalty (and if you do, just bring a staff for extra energy) , 30 energy is enough to use AR and then follow with [[for great justice].

Next thing, you'll be spamming [[go for the eyes] and [[save yourselves] like crazy and when you notice your energy will be up back to 30 in no time.

Going a bit off topic, what's the point of having more energy than you could possibly spend?

Sir Owns Alot EP · Jun 01, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Tweak builds to your own preferance. I use Frenzy, despite the oftentimes bad rep it gets on this site, and it works fine for me.

Nightow · Jun 01, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoll

It is easy to keep it up. You are doing it wrong.

Always bring a battery necro? (please explain)

BTW, when I say keep it up, I mean like there's afker's and you have no idea if they're going to be afk for like 10 seconds or 5 minutes.

Richardt · Jun 01, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

I do this when I enter an area:

Aggressive Refrain->For Great Justice

By the time FGJ runs out, I can start keeping up AR with TntF. And yes that is with 30 energy

If I happen to party wipe, I'll switch to a +5 energy spear and repeat the same procedure, then go back to my 15^50 when I have enough energy to keep TntF up easily or my DP goes back down.

MisterB · Jun 01, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Enter zone.
Equip Superior Leadership helm and a staff.
Activate [[Aggressive [email protected]] and [There's Nothing to Fear]. You could use FGJ as above poster suggested, I suppose.
Switch back to your regular helm and weapon.
Maintain AR with TNtF throughout the rest of the zone.
Aggressive Refrain will refresh at the attribute you use to first apply it, so you only need a temporary boost to Leadership.

Racthoh · Jun 01, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Always bring a battery necro? (please explain)

BTW, when I say keep it up, I mean like there's afker's and you have no idea if they're going to be afk for like 10 seconds or 5 minutes.

Unless everyone has spread really far out you should be able to just hit There's Nothing To Fear! on recharge to keep Aggressive Refrain up. 6 energy returned on use and the other 9 will regenerate in the 20 seconds it takes for TNTF to recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Owns Alot EP

I use Frenzy, despite the oftentimes bad rep it gets on this site, and it works fine for me.

Okay it works for you, but AR is just infinitely better. Cracked Armor vs. double damage; Aggressive Refrain is better. One time 25 energy investment vs. using your natural energy regeneration to maintain constant IAS; Aggressive Refrain is better. Unstrippable vs. strippable; Aggressive Refrain is better.

The only IAS better than Aggressive Refrain on a paragon is going to dip into your bank account (Essence, Drunken Master).

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 01, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Listen to Racthoh people, AR is infinatly better then any IAS you can use (and arguably better then Drunken Master). Personally though, I use Racway and bind hero's Anthem of Flame to keep up AR.

I don't see why people see Cracked armor and flail around like a chicken with it's head cut off. If you using Centurion (Like you know you should be), your AL should -still- be around 80 or some. Even so, If you are being targeted with enough aggro that Cracked armor is making a difference, your either doing it wrong, or your team has died (Which essentially means your doing it wrong anyway, since your a imbagon). Paragons do not attract much aggro (Yes, even without Vitae, you health nuts.).

Darkside · Jun 02, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

I had my doubts about AR when I first made my Paragon and initially I wanted to use Flurry but was convinced by the peeps here that AR was the way to go. I tried it out and it hasn't left my bar. More often then not the Cracked Armor gets removed almost instantly by one of my hero's and if not it's not a big deal anyway since you're a mid liner and generally not targeted.

FoxBat · Jun 02, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

AR only gives 100% SY uptime if you have either

1) Near max Luxon rank (5 seconds)
2) Dark Fury

Lacking either of those, 33% from frenzy has its virtues. But I wouldn't trust it without a human prot monk.

Richardt · Jun 02, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

AR only gives 100% SY uptime if you have either

1) Near max Luxon rank (5 seconds)
2) Dark Fury

Lacking either of those, 33% from frenzy has its virtues. But I wouldn't trust it without a human prot monk.

Not true.

I have rank 7 Kurz. and when I'm in a party without someone throwing around Dark Fury I'm able to keep it consistantly. Having Dark Fury allows you effectively overlap your SY's-I'm noticing that my SY recharges about halfway through it's duration.

Now if you have a low Kurz/Lux rank then Dark Fury has a major impact.