Curse

hlc617 · Aug 18, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I like the update. I mean yes, it's only 3 seconds, but it's 4 adren with no recharge. It's gfte and watch yourself before the nerfs. Everyone in the party including yourself, every few seconds, getting 3 seconds of one more pip of energy VS. giving everyone 7-10 energy max every 20 seconds or more, while severely inhibiting your energy for 10 seconds? Idk.. I never saw the appeal before this update.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 19, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Maybe if they made the effects stack after every use it'd be useful. Kind of the like the skill "HYAHHHHH!" on siege devourers and make the Max + regen be scaled.

Lishy · Aug 19, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Maybe if they made the effects stack after every use it'd be useful. Kind of the like the skill "HYAHHHHH!" on siege devourers and make the Max + regen be scaled.

Somebody from ANET get this guy to become a skill balancer

But wouldn't 3 seconds not be enough time to stack it?

Richardt · Aug 19, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I tried using this on my ranger's hero para with varying degrees of sucess:

[build prof=p leadership=11+1, motivation=8+1, spear=11+1+1][vicious attack][spear of lightning][the power is yours][aria of zeal][they're on fire][blazing finale][aggressive refrain][signet of return][/build]

Throw [[blazing finale] on your front line, and then spam [[the power is yours]. Use [[they're on fire] to provide damage reduction. In theory it should work well, but heroes are dumb (didn't use TPIY as often as he should've, and barely touched Blazing).

You can also drop ToF and Blazing for [[lyric of zeal] and [[finale of restoration] for more energy and healing, although I haven't tested this. With this setup, I'd drop spear down a point to boost Motivation to get more healing from the finale.

-Lotus- · Aug 19, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Maybe if they made the effects stack after every use it'd be useful. Kind of the like the skill "HYAHHHHH!" on siege devourers and make the Max + regen be scaled.

I like this. a slightly more detailed suggestion:

make the time scale, not the regen. have the regen at +1 always. lowest duration 1 second going to 7 seconds at 10 spec, 10 seconds at 12, and 15 seconds with 14 motivation. also have the + energy stack, but keep the original time limit on each pip.

This might provide a second build that paragons can actually play in PvE.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 19, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Somebody from ANET get this guy to become a skill balancer

But wouldn't 3 seconds not be enough time to stack it?

It would if you bring, like, Racway Heroes. It would recharge in practically one hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

I like this. a slightly more detailed suggestion:

make the time scale, not the regen. have the regen at +1 always. lowest duration 1 second going to 7 seconds at 10 spec, 10 seconds at 12, and 15 seconds with 14 motivation. also have the + energy stack, but keep the original time limit on each pip.

This might provide a second build that paragons can actually play in PvE.

Well... This is what I meant, really.

"The power is yours!" - 4 Adrenaline

Elite Shout. For 3 seconds, all allies within earshot gain 0...1...1 Energy regeneration. Use this skill up to 1...2...3 additional times to gain 0...1...1 Energy regeneration each time

So basically at it's highest level (15) and potential you'd be providing your party with +4 energy regen. 3 seconds is not a lot of time which would balance the use of this skill quite a lot running into complications with enemies blocking and the like. It's elite status limits the use of abuse-able adrenaline skills (Focused Anger, Battle Rage), which balances it's abuse even further.

My Lipgloss is Cool · Aug 19, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

I made a hero build that I'm currently testing out:

[build=OQCjYOnMKP2bL87OFvi5weY3NA]

[build prof=P mot=12+1+1 lead=9+1 spear=9+1 comma=3+1][The Power is Yours][Go For the Eyes][Energizing Finale][Finale of Restoration][Purifying Finale][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Restoration][Aggressive Refrain][/build]

This way, you gain spear autoattack damage, and only loose a little energy gain from Leadership (which is still going to keep you at plenty of energy).

The only real downside that I can see is having to cycle Ballad/Aria of Restoration outside of fights to keep AR up (assuming there isn't a source of chants somewhere else), but that's hardly a problem. Energy might become tight if you have to keep it up for a long time, but breaks that long are rare. Also, you can just throw on a Sup Leadership hat for the casting of AR, and get a few more seconds of play with it.

Richardt · Aug 19, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

[build prof=P mot=12+1+1 lead=9+1 spear=9+1 comma=3+1][The Power is Yours][Go For the Eyes][Energizing Finale][Finale of Restoration][Purifying Finale][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Restoration][Aggressive Refrain][/build]

The problem I have with this build and Schmerdro's is you don't need to bring GftE! It's basically a wasted skill slot that you can stick a decent spear attack in. You'll be getting plenty of energy from spamming TPIY. And with your low command, you'll be doing more damage with a spear attack than the ocassional crit from GftE.

Personnally, I'd focus on only one or two finale's. Perhaps something to benefit your frontline as your backline would be getting the benefits of TPIY and Aria.

Tyla · Aug 20, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

To be honest, I'd prefer the following:

["the power is yours!"][vicious attack][energizing finale][finale of restoration][aggressive refrain][ballad of restoration][mending refrain][signet of return]
11+1+1 Spear Mastery
9+1 Motivation
9+1 Leadership

I'm not sure if Ballad of Restoration can keep Mending Refrain up indefinately, but I'm completely sure it can keep AR up indefinately. Maybe swap out Signet of Return for another Anthem to upkeep it, but whatever.

I always try to get a big investment in Spear Mastery. Ranged damage is awesome, particularly from spears.

DarkNecrid · Aug 20, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

I'm not sure if Ballad of Restoration can keep Mending Refrain up indefinately, but I'm completely sure it can keep AR up indefinately. Maybe swap out Signet of Return for another Anthem to upkeep it, but whatever.

It doesn't need to, TPIY "ends" when you reapply it, no? I thought this was the case, but I havent tested TPIY yet so idk.

Bowstring Badass · Aug 20, 2008, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Rather waste my elite slot on BiP.

Tyla · Aug 20, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

TPIY is adrenaline, I mean inbetween fights aswell.

And yes Bowstring this is still a pretty bad elite, but I guess it could be fun to toy with...

Racthoh · Aug 20, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

This new "The Power Is Yours!" has shown that it will lead to builds that lack balance between defensive and offensive support. In order to abuse the skill you're going to need the finales to be cast from someone else, not the one using TPIY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

[build prof=P mot=12+1+1 lead=9+1 spear=9+1 comma=3+1][The Power is Yours][Go For the Eyes][Energizing Finale][Finale of Restoration][Purifying Finale][Ballad of Restoration][Aria of Restoration][Aggressive Refrain][/build]

When you look at this you'll think "cool I'll be triggering all of these finales for condition removal, healing, and energy management". The reality is it won't work that way. For the finales to truly be effective you'll want to be triggering them as frequently as possible on as many allies as possible, meaning you need to make shouts/chants end, and in the case of this example build you need adrenaline to do just that. The issue that arises as a result is either the finales aren't being spread or you're not attacking enough to make the finales trigger.

So let's see how it works out over 30 seconds, 3 seconds shorter than each finale at the current 14 spec. We'll assume that 3 seconds was spent for pre-combat setup.

The auto-attacks will fly at a rate of 1.13 attacks per second so at best you're looking at 26 attacks over a 30 second period.

"Go For The Eyes!" has a 4 second recharge and takes about 5 seconds to fill up leading us to 9 seconds overall or a max of 3 uses every 30 seconds. This is assuming "The Power Is Yours!" is always used when "Go For The Eyes!" is recharging so as to avoid draining any adrenaline from its pool.

"The Power Is Yours!" will fill in about 5 seconds. Now since "Go For The Eyes!" has a recharge it would make more sense to use it first, leaving every usage of "The Power Is Yours!" to come during the 6th second in optimal conditions. To say that works out to 5 uses within the 30 seconds would be pushing it; we'll go with 4 uses to be fair.

Between the two we can conclude that we'll get a total of 7 triggers over a 30 second period; 35 energy to the paragon, 20 from the natural 2 pips, and 4 from "TPIY" ending. 59 energy in total. But to get that result it means you never cast a single finale outside of pre-combat preparations. Assuming Ballad of Restoration and Aria of Restoration are both used within the first 10 seconds of combat they could be used twice during that 30 second duration. But because we're looking at what a single paragon can do you'll probably be cycling the two skills at roughly 10 second intervals to keep Aggressive Refrain up. This would result in a total of 2 uses for one, and 1 use for the other, 3 seconds used in total, 15 energy expended.

Each finale takes a single second to use. If each finale was used once during the 30 seconds it'll be another 3 seconds and 20 more energy put to use. But now you've spent time not attacking, so you're not building adrenaline so you're going to lose a few "GFTE!" and "TPIY". However you could only cast the finales during "GFTE!"'s recharge to avoid losing any of its uses but it would still hamper the rate of "TPIY!". Enough to drop it down to 3 uses in 30 seconds in the best case scenario, for a total of about 6 triggers on a single ally. All of that results in:

6 possible conditions removed. Let's hope it got something useful at least once.
426 health returned over 30 seconds, 14.2 health a second; 7.1 pips of health regen. We can toss in an additional 243 health from Aria and Ballad, assuming Aria was the chant used twice over that time. So we get 22.3 health a second; 11.15 pips of health regeneration.
12 energy gained, 0.4 energy a second; 1.2 pips of energy regeneration. The monk will need that extra energy to heal you for the extra damage the party took because the paragon was not contributing offensively enough.

This is of course assuming every single attack over 30 seconds hits, you never break stride, and the finales are used on a single person. So... attacks will miss, enemies will die mid throw/be moving/a break when swapping targets, and using the finales on just one person is quite the waste.

Even if something in there doesn't make sense the conclusion is obvious. Get 4 paragons, one with each finale, one with "The Power Is Yours!", and no multiples of any shout/chant to truly abuse the finales. Put them all on the same bar and you provide very little offensive and defensive support.

The Imbagon bar in comparison is full of skills that do not impede the killing process. The only skill that stops you from attacking is Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, but it contributes to the mayhem. This is what contributes to the effectiveness of the bar; you're attacking not casting. Paragons are meant to do damage and support. 3 finales, 2 chants, and 2 shouts immediately tells me the balance between damage and support is heavily lopsided. Each spot on a paragon's bar that does not contribute to offense in some nature should provide a support aspect that no other profession could provide as effectively (or just as well).

Snow Bunny · Aug 20, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Why would you take along a Motigon with an inferior elite? The only reason to take TPIY is if your monks can't handle the pressure. In which case they should get better. Seriously.

SoR or SoP vastly outclasses other Motigons, and with an Imbagon it's pretty GG.

Axel Zinfandel · Aug 20, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Why would you take along a Motigon with an inferior elite? The only reason to take TPIY is if your monks can't handle the pressure. In which case they should get better. Seriously.

SoR or SoP vastly outclasses other Motigons, and with an Imbagon it's pretty GG.

I mean, I love the imbagon but I freely admit that "SY!" is far too powerful for it's own good. Logically speaking, for "Watch Yourself!" to have a recharge AND a attack limit, and "Save Yourselves!" not to is absolutely absurd, even for it being a PvE only skill.

I wouldn't exactly like to see a recharge on SY! so much as a trigger like WY!, and removing the attack trigger on "WY!" , but perhaps buff the +AR -slightly-, keeping the recharge as is (or perhaps a second or two more). That way paragons' using WY! would be weaker, It'd give more of a reason for Warriors to run tactics, it wouldn't be too broken with Leadership, and the recharge hinders it's upkeep somewhat. Speaking a PvE only change on that of course.

As far as PvE is concerned too, I'd like to see a lot of motivation skills be more universally useful for a single paragon to use in a team, as well as a few of the command skills, but that's just me. I'm not saying I want the paragon to be a healing powerhouse, but I would like to see the recharge lowered slightly on some of the Arias/Ballads, as well as the duration, to give it less of a period to be activated by your team, but used slightly more often. Granted, I'm not thinking anything less then say 12 recharge, and that's pushing it. 15 maybe.

Just an on the spot brainstorm though

IllusiveMind · Aug 22, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

To be honest, I'd prefer the following:

["the power is yours!"][vicious attack][energizing finale][finale of restoration][aggressive refrain][ballad of restoration][mending refrain][signet of return]
11+1+1 Spear Mastery
9+1 Motivation
9+1 Leadership

I'm not sure if Ballad of Restoration can keep Mending Refrain up indefinately, but I'm completely sure it can keep AR up indefinately. Maybe swap out Signet of Return for another Anthem to upkeep it, but whatever.

I always try to get a big investment in Spear Mastery. Ranged damage is awesome, particularly from spears.

Tyla that bar is quite good. However I would suggest this one:
[spear of lightning][barbed spear][anthem of flame][cry of frustration]["the power is yours!"][energizing finale][aggressive refrain][signet of return]

Anthem of Flame is there to keep up my Aggressive Refrain, followed up by Spear of Lightning and Barbed Spear providing nice pressure. The rest of the bar is pretty much self explanatory.