Curse

Akimb0 · Jan 15, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Are they ever going to fix Aggressive Refrain? I don't mind the -20 armour too much since I have a ranged weapon, but it's the fact that it puts a condition on you, which heroes / hench then try to repeatedly spam off you with condition removal, on top of it counting towards skills which can harm you ( e.g. iron palm ) ... I wonder if it would be possible to have it work like the -10 while attacking penalty certain weapons have :S Either way can people suggest alternatives (flail?) or ways to deal with this skill.

the savage nornbear · Jan 15, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

No they are not. It is well balanced.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 15, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

[Aggressive Refrain]

Pros:
Maintainable +25% IAS
Echo (reapplied whenever a Chant or Shout ends) - easier to maintain
Can go on others

Cons:
Removable -20 armor
High energy cost

The skill needs some cons to it dude! I see nothing wrong with it, if you include a few shouts like [Anthem of Flame] and ["They're On Fire!"] you can eventually maintain it on a full party if you keep a shout ending every 10 or so seconds. So monks remove the cracked armor immediately, 5 energy for a IAS with minimal downsides.

Keep it how it is.

Tyla · Jan 15, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

You don't even need the above, you could maintain it with "TNTF" at 12 Leadership.

It's a small price to pay considering how powerful the IAS is.

Zidane Ortef · Jan 15, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

A everlasting 33% IAS that can't be stripped with out the cracked armor penalty it would be imbalanced skill is fine as is.

Don't take singe target Condition removal use stuff like [Pure Was Li Ming]

ac1inferno · Jan 16, 2009, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Nothing wrong with [[Aggressive Refrain] as it is. Disable condition removal on your heroes and micro them. If it gave a -20 armor penalty without it being a condition, then Cracked Armor on top would do -40 armor.

turbo234 · Jan 16, 2009, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Nothing wrong with [[Aggressive Refrain] as it is. Disable condition removal on your heroes and micro them. If it gave a -20 armor penalty without it being a condition, then Cracked Armor on top would do -40 armor.

wouldn't the cracked armor not actually work since it can only bring al down to 60.

Bobby2 · Jan 16, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Nothing wrong with [[Aggressive Refrain] as it is. Disable condition removal on your heroes and micro them.

You don't need to micro [foul feast].

ac1inferno · Jan 16, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo234

wouldn't the cracked armor not actually work since it can only bring al down to 60.

Not every Paragon uses Survivor. Some use Centurion's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

You don't need to micro [foul feast].

My heroes don't seem to like to use it unless I click it for them.

bungusmaximus · Jan 16, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Maybe your heroes got too much to do already next to drawing condis? I always stick FF on an mm together with infuse conditions, works like a charm usually. All my olias needs to do is summon up a minion every now and then and remove hexes. Mind you that my mm's don't run death nova (impatient as I am I don't like waiting for olias every time).

As for AR, I hate the nerf, game-wise it's well balanced, but it just doesn't make any sense. I wouldn't know any other way to nurf it though, because you can't cancel it like frenzy, so applying an armor penalty or + damage would make even less sense and would be way too severe.

The only possible solution is splitting the skill PvE/PvP wise like many others. Apply cracked armor in PvP and leave it alone in PvE (Everything is broken in PvE anyways since the introduction of lolpve skills so meh)

My Lipgloss is Cool · Jan 17, 2009, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

[Aggressive Refrain]

Pros:
Maintainable +25% IAS
Echo (reapplied whenever a Chant or Shout ends) - easier to maintain
Can go on others

Cons:
Removable -20 armor
High energy cost

The skill needs some cons to it dude! I see nothing wrong with it, if you include a few shouts like [Anthem of Flame] and ["They're On Fire!"] you can eventually maintain it on a full party if you keep a shout ending every 10 or so seconds. So monks remove the cracked armor immediately, 5 energy for a IAS with minimal downsides.

Keep it how it is.

Wait, what??

Calista Blackblood · Jan 17, 2009, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Lipgloss is Cool

Wait, what??

Confusion: [mending refrain]

Bobby2 · Jan 17, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19

[mending], [frenzy], same thing.

Good eye

Arieon Ito · Jan 21, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

[smite condition] can be your friend and very effective AoE if you're worried about having a constant 'always on' condition.

Plus with Cracked Amor and [save yourselves!], that means you become the main squishy mobs will rush for. Don't really see the downside there.

And even if it's -20 armor, I trust you have a shield on? That's still 76 armor after cracked armor is applied.

MasterSasori · Jan 21, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

[smite condition] can be your friend and very effective AoE if you're worried about having a constant 'always on' condition.

Plus with Cracked Amor and [save yourselves!], that means you become the main squishy mobs will rush for. Don't really see the downside there.

And even if it's -20 armor, I trust you have a shield on? That's still 76 armor after cracked armor is applied.

I don't recall mobs swarming paras...

-20 is minimal compared to the extra IAS and the SY generated from it.

Arieon Ito · Jan 22, 2009, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I don't recall mobs swarming paras...

-20 is minimal compared to the extra IAS and the SY generated from it.

Well, they do in my case since I H/H with all casters and I call/first strike targets. Zero front line = Midline and backline get swamped. Plus, mobs usually do change targets once SY! is up, everyone gets a higher armor rating than I have.

Most reapplications of cracked armor on my paragon during battles get converted into holy damage that the enemy warriors eat since they're fighting around me.

Bobby2 · Jan 22, 2009, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

Well, they do in my case since I H/H with all casters and I call/first strike targets. Zero front line = Midline and backline get swamped. Plus, mobs usually do change targets once SY! is up, everyone gets a higher armor rating than I have.

Most reapplications of cracked armor on my paragon during battles get converted into holy damage that the enemy warriors eat since they're fighting around me.

+1 for Racway!

MasterSasori · Jan 27, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arieon Ito

Well, they do in my case since I H/H with all casters and I call/first strike targets. Zero front line = Midline and backline get swamped. Plus, mobs usually do change targets once SY! is up, everyone gets a higher armor rating than I have.

Most reapplications of cracked armor on my paragon during battles get converted into holy damage that the enemy warriors eat since they're fighting around me.

Well if you use exclusively casters then it would be a different story. However, it is simple to bring one or two henches that are melee oriented.

Worse comes to worse, there is always TNTF which has saved me many times. Maybe experiment with different hero setups?

I recall a Paragon + Derv setup posted somewhere here on guru. Never had the chance to try it, but it looks quite promising, especially since you will be playing para. Synergy is always nice.

MisterB · Jan 28, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

If you're really worked up about cracked armor from [[Aggressive Refrain], you could always use [[Purifying Finale], or micro a hero to maintain it on you. The cracked armor will never, or very rarely, be applied.

phan · Jan 28, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

[foul feast] + [plague sending] + [damaageee!] = good spike