Curse

Stealth Bomberman · Apr 30, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

[soldiers fury] Vs. [aggressive refrain]

I know this debate has come up numerous times, but which do you guys think out of these 2 skills wins? Let's compare them in a PvP and a PvE setting and just give examples on which is better in which setting.

Icy The Mage · Apr 30, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Aggressive Refrain wins in both situations because it's non-elite and allows you to take a useful elite skill on your bar. Imo.

Shayne Hawke · Apr 30, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Aggressive Refrain, because you can easily maintain it for a permanent IAS and it's not an elite.

Ben-A-BoO · Apr 30, 2009, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Yup, what Shayne and IcyFiftyFive said. Especially since [[soldier's fury] needs a perma chant or shout over the full duration, which there are not that many useful ones.

So it's either ["Lead the Way!"] or ["Can't Touch This!"] on a [[Soldier's Fury] bar in PvP. The first is costly and works 'only' in 8 vs 8 format; the second is cheap but pretty much useless.

Aggressive refrain has much better synergy with the nature of shouts and you bring one or two anyway to manage your energy. Cracked Armor is a royal pain but with [foul feast] and [plague sending] still not nerfed you might at least get something out of it.

My vote for PvP: Aggressive refrain
My vote for PvE: Either [[Drunken Master] (Alcohol is cheap) or Cons and none of the two (aka Essence of Celerity, Green Rock Candy, Blue Rock Candy or RedRock Candy)
For NM play take whatever suits you, your heroes will do the job anyway.

CrimsonDaggers · Apr 30, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

[Soldier's Fury] tears [aggressive refrain] up in both PvP and in PvE.

PvP: Aggressive refrain takes too much energy to get it started. By the time you have enough energy to do anything meaningful, the match is over (at least in RA). Also, cracked armor isn't fun, plus why would you want to crack your own beautiful armor to attack quicker when you can maintain the beauty of your armor with [soldier's fury] and attack 8% faster (over AR) with it!

PvE: The same is here, Soldier's Fury is just better for short term battles and for long term battles.

The overarching truth of why [Soldier's Fury] wins is because it costs very little and recharges very quicky. For PvE, when coupled with ["Stand Your Ground!"] and ["There's Nothing to Fear!"], two very awesome shouts, they can be staggered to ensure that every second of [soldier's fury] is utilized.

Furthermore, anytime you can decrease the damage to players/heroes on a team, thus decreasing the amount of energy monks have to use at a given time, is better for the Win. Saving monks energy is better than the amount of damage that a paragon puts out.
Paragon's were made to boost the team effort. And with Soldier's Fury, I can still put out more damage than Aggressive Refrain by spamming it whenever it is down, and keeping it useful with very proteam staggering shouts.

Ben-A-BoO · Apr 30, 2009, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonDaggers

PvP: Aggressive refrain takes too much energy to get it started. By the time you have enough energy to do anything meaningful, the match is over (at least in RA).

First off bring a staff as your high set, and you shouldn't lose Aggressive anyway with a bit of shout management ... put it up before battle you should back at full energy ... it really is easily maintainable.
And for being not useful as para without energy: ... Adrenaline says "Hi!".

Second, think twice before bringing a Paragon in any format below 8 team memebers (aka RA) ... why would you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonDaggers

... For PvE, when coupled with ["Stand Your Ground!"] and ["There's Nothing to Fear!"], two very awesome shouts, they can be staggered to ensure that every second of [soldier's fury] is utilized.

[Save yourselves] (which is just to good on a PvE Paragon to not bring it) makes [["Stand Your Ground!"] superfluous. Armor doesn't stack above +25 from multiple spells. [["There's Nothing to Fear!"] is a great skill but nothing that'll maintain [[soldier's fury].

For PvE use either [[Drunken Master] (with cheap alcohol) or cons in HM (see above) ... and I don't think we have to discuss NM anyway.

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 30, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

I think they should buff Soldier's Fury's Adrenaline gain to 66% or something. At least then you could slap in Natural Temper to the build and actually have something decent to work with.

It wouldn't be too imbalanced, because even though it's better then AR+FA+FGJ, it required that you both have a shout active at all times AND not be enchanted.

Mr Pink57 · May 02, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

Yup, what Shayne and IcyFiftyFive said. Especially since [[soldier's fury] needs a perma chant or shout over the full duration, which there are not that many useful ones.

So it's either ["Lead the Way!"] or ["Can't Touch This!"] on a [[Soldier's Fury] bar in PvP. The first is costly and works 'only' in 8 vs 8 format; the second is cheap but pretty much useless.

Aggressive refrain has much better synergy with the nature of shouts and you bring one or two anyway to manage your energy. Cracked Armor is a royal pain but with [foul feast] and [plague sending] still not nerfed you might at least get something out of it.

My vote for PvP: Aggressive refrain
My vote for PvE: Either [[Drunken Master] (Alcohol is cheap) or Cons and none of the two (aka Essence of Celerity, Green Rock Candy, Blue Rock Candy or RedRock Candy)
For NM play take whatever suits you, your heroes will do the job anyway.

Most para's in 8v8 take ["We Shall Return"] which is somewhat viable. However I am seeing more now take Flurry in place of what used to be flail.

pink

Faye Aeris · May 02, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

At allegiance rank 10 and above Soldier's Fury wins out. Otherwise, use Aggressive Refrain/Focused Anger. This is assuming you're talking about the Imbagon.

Code:

Logic:
Soldier's Fury is kept up with TnTF, They're on Fire
The extra space left from the loss of Aggressive Refrain allows for ToF to be added.
Replacing Aggressive Refrain with They're on Fire adds to the build by further reducing damage and also eliminating Cracked Armor (Trivial, but still a plus).

Attack speed of a spear is 1.5 seconds, with Fury it becomes 1 second.

Adrenaline gain is 1/attack, with Fury it becomes 1.33/attack.

8 strikes of adrenaline/1.33 adren per hit = 6 hits per charged SY

1 second/hit x 6 hits per SY = 6 seconds per SY

At ranks 10 and higher, SY lasts for 6 seconds, allowing you to keep it up permanently. If you enjoy having the buffer zone that the FA+AR combo gives you, then Soldier's Fury isn't for you.