Curse

CrimsonDaggers · Apr 30, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Check this out, I just made an adjustment to my main PvE Build and I will explain how to work it:

[Furious Shouter; OQGjUumKqSKYzgDZxgWYtbAh1YA]

My Set Up: 1. Superior Vigor for Health 2. Leadership headgear with Superior Leadership 3. All armor pieces with Centurion 4. An Attunement on my chest 5. And Minor Spear Mastery on boots

This puts my Attributes at: 14 Leadership, 12 Spear Mastery, 10 Command

I am wielding Hidesplitter's Spear and Aureate Aegis of Fortitude.

How this Build Adds to a Team: Basically, this build's purpose is to put a whole lot of pressure on the other team with fast and furious spears, but also the overarching reason for this build is to assist the monks. How? I will tell you! The way you assist monks is by reducing the amount of damage that their team mates take with damage reducing, armor boosting, and 60 pt health heals after TNtF is gone, thus making sure that the Monks have more than enough energy to handle any big spikes.

When Charging into Battle: The first skills you play when charging into a battle are 6 and 7 or [soldier's fury] and ["there's nothing to fear!"]. Reasoning: Because most enemy teams throw most of their damage in the first few seconds so playing TNtF over ["Stand your ground!"] is the better first skill in a battle.
Then, you build up your adrenaline and as soon as [blazing spear] is set up, you throw that at your target, followed by [Spear of Fury] to give 3-6 strikes of adrenaline to shout ["Save Yourselve's!"]. Next, by this time, ["There's nothing to fear!"] has run out and you must cast ["Stand your ground!"]. By doing this, you will ensure that [Soldier's Fury] is rocking the other team's world while fueling you with some Rageful Adrenaline! You want to stagger TNtF and SYG, so that one is not in duration with the other to keep a shout on your character 100% of the time.
Then, while TNtF is recharging and SYG is in force, by this time your target should be below 50% so you should wound that thug with [merciless spear] ! Also during this time you are spamming ["go for the eyes!"].
Now, once TNtF is fulling charged and ready to roll, you press 6 and 7 (SF and TNtF) and Save Yourselve's should be ready to be played at this time with TNtF. That way, the armor bonus is not stacking with SYG because the armor bonus will cap at +25 with multiple skills. Then you rinse and repeat.

Summary: When running into battle the button pressing goes something like 6-7-1-2-4-8-...( up to the imagination at this point 1-2-3-5 or 3-2-5)...then 7-6-4 then 8 when TNtF runes out and the fun continues.

Again, I cannot stress this enough, you must stagger TNtF and SYG, As Well As Save Yourselve's and SYG in order to make sure that SF is working at all times and your build is not running into itself.

I believe this build is > than any Focused Anger build, but I have some ideas of what I might take out and replace, such as Merciless Spear for a Sunspear Signet or GFTE for something else like ["Never Surrender!"]. Any thoughts, comments, positive feedback, and constructive criticism are welcome

Saraneth · Apr 30, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

You might want to use [[Go for the Eyes] in conjunction with [[Vicious Attack] instead of [[Merciless Spear].

CrimsonDaggers · Apr 30, 2009, 11:04 PM // 23:04

That is a great idea! As the Adrenaline fuels Energy and Energy fuels the high costing Shouts the Shouts sustain Soldier's Fury. My only fear is that with all there is to think about with this build, is adding another dynamic like that the needle that broke the camels back?

Then again, a person using this build could just associate 1 with 2, 3 with 5, 4 with 7, and then what's left is 6 with 8. If that change is made then I would consider changing the order of the build to look something like

[Furious Shouter; OQGjUumKqSKYzgBZWYxgAhtb1YA]

in order to help make it easy to think when in the midst of a battle.

Shayne Hawke · Apr 30, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

You've basically made an Imbagon that is personally stronger through an armor boost and not having Cracked Armor, but won't have a permanent IAS, or at least an easily maintainable one, and will do a worse job of keeping up SY! because of your use of other adrenal skills.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Apr 30, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

What "other team" half your skills are PvE so you cannot use it in PvP...

Faye Aeris · Apr 30, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Consider replacing [Blazing Spear] with [Anthem of Flame]. [Anthem of Flame] is partywide, does not take away adrenaline from [Save Yourselves], and also can be casted before a battle then followed up with [Spear of Fury] for an instantly charged [Save Yourselves].

In addition, [Anthem of Envy] seems like a better choice than [Go for the eyes]. Criticals aren't that good with a spear, and +damage is more useful in many situations. [Vicious Attack] can then be replaced with some utility, such as [Spear Swipe].

Finally, if you can find room in your attributes to spec into tactics, [Watch Yourself] instead of [Stand Your Ground]. The reason for this is that monks, who are often targeted by enemy groups, tend to kite a lot, meaning [Stand your ground] is wasted on them. [Watch Yourself] is unconditional and while it does cost adrenaline, if you replace [Go for the eyes] you end up with about the same adrenaline/energy usage.

CrimsonDaggers · May 01, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Faye, thanks for your input! I have since updated my bar to look like

[Furious Shouter; OQGjUumKqSVYzgWYBZxgAhtb1YA]

because Anthem of Flame was too obvious a choice over Blazing Spear. Also, I am going to try out the Anthem of Envy and Spear Swipe suggestions as well as mess around with my attributes to see what I can do for increasing Tactics for "Watch Yourself!"

I have been playing around with this in HM and it is a lot simpler to play than I thought it was going to be in the beginning. I simply press 6 and 7 together, 1 and 2, followed by 5, 3 and 4 together and 8 is for when TNtF is charging. Basically, there is either +100 or +25 armor on at all times, as well as 35% less damage for 11 out of 20 seconds.

Considering your ideas though, which make a lot of sense, it comes down to Command Vs. Tactics. If we moved 10 points from Command to Tactics, there would be no need for GFTE and SYG. But I think Anthem of Envy shouldn't be on the bar of a 10 Tactics attribute...so another skill would have to be used perhaps [blazing finale] for more burn or [remedy signet] to remove blind or any other skill in Tactics ?? For example : ["For great justice!"] except PvE version is 20 seconds.
Pros of Tactics: can cause daze, and can boost armor of kiters.
Pros of Command: You get a critical hit, a decent attack with a chance to deep wound, and a 5 second more boost to armor than WY with 6 more armor

I've edited this like 5 times, but I just came up with this as a possible Tactics leaning build:

[Furious Shouter - Tactics;OQGjUplLqSVYzgxgAhtbXFcFxbA]
and you can variate the 8th skill with Spear Swipe.

Is anybody leaning one way more than the other?

Skyy High · May 01, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Seriously, it's an imbagon with [Soldier's Fury] and [Stand Your Ground] in place of [Focused Anger] and [Aggressive Refrain].

CrimsonDaggers · May 01, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

I believe it proves that [Soldier's Fury] > or = [Focused Anger] + [Aggressive Refrain], and I think it is getting closer to being ready for testing in PvX.

Not to mention, no cracking my beautiful armor

Saraneth · May 01, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

Consider replacing [Blazing Spear] with [Anthem of Flame]. [Anthem of Flame] is partywide.

Assuming that your party is following called targets, [[Anthem of Flame] does nothing but lower the paragon's dps, as you miss out on the +dmg from [[Blazing Spear]. In addition, allies executing attack skills within nearly the same time as one another only serves to extend the burning condition on a single target by a few secs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

[Anthem of Flame] does not take away adrenaline from [Save Yourselves].

[[Blazing Spear] can be followed up by [[Spear of Fury] in the same way that you suggested for [[Anthem of Flame], making up for the loss of adren required for [[Save Yourselves]. However, I will concede to the use of [[Anthem of Flame] and [[Spear of Fury] for adren gain right as the battle commences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

...+damage is more useful in many situations. [Vicious Attack] can then be replaced with some utility, such as [Spear Swipe]

Replacing [[Vicious Attack] with [[Spear Swipe] may send the paragon into the frontline from time to time to daze targets. Provided that there are melee on the team and the paragon is the only one equiped with [[Save Yourselves], this could become an issue, as the paragon won't have as much defense as the other frontliners.

At any rate, dropping [[Vicious Attack] from your bar will result in the loss of another + dmg skill.

Axel Zinfandel · May 01, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

How is 33% adrenal gain better then 100+? Better? hardly. This discussion has come up NUMEROUS times. use the search function. Soldier's Fury will not be 'better' for an imba build ever, unless it is buffed. the IAS is not a big enough increase to warrant it's use.

Also, SYG is worthless with SY! If you insist on using Soldier's Fury, use Natural Temper to buff your adrenal gain further

Faye Aeris · May 01, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

You forget that anthem of flame gives 1 second of burning more than blazing spear. That in itself gives the paragon another 14 damage... Which is also unblockable, unlike the bonus from blazing spear. Also, if you take into account the party members inflictig burning, I think that anthem of flame outperforms blazing spear. In terms of PvE, partywide buffs generally = win. Hence, SY.

Regarding the anthem of envy vs. Gfte, it's simply a matter of preference. I personally prefer the former, since the extra damage is guaranteed and tends to be more effective in HM. Racthoh states similar reasons for his preference of anthem of envy. Sure, the vicious attack synergy is lost, but that makes room for more utility/damage control through spear swipe. Which leads me to my next point.

Spear swipe is much more useful than vicious attack. With the latter, you get a sometimes-working dwep wound and a bit of extra damage. With spear swipe, you can shutdown what is usually the most dangerous damage dealer in an enemy group along with dealing some decent damage. Of course, this can be timed with anthem of flame/spear of fury in between SY/WY cycles.

All in all, paragons are a class with decent damage, but superb party support. The reason I lean towards all of these skills is not because it makes the paragon stronger in terms of individual dps. These skills allow the party to deal more damage and take less damage, giving greater benefit than if just the paragn player was pumping out dps. I could go further in depth, but im typing on a phone and it's very meticulous, so I will leave it at that for now.

Saraneth · May 01, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

How is 33% adrenal gain better then 100+?

He added [[For Great Justice (PVE)] to take him beyond 33% adren gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

You forget that anthem of flame gives 1 second of burning more than blazing spear.

[Furious Shouter;OQGjUumKqSKYzgDZxgWYtbAh1YA]

With this, the OP has 10 Command and 12 Spear. These stats give [[Anthem of Flame] 2 secs burning and [[Blazing Spear] +21 dmg & 3 sec burning.

[[Anthem of Flame]'s party effect does allow for the burning condition to be prolonged on a single target. However, this is only by a few seconds, unless coordinated, as allied physicals will most likely be using attack skills within a short time of each other on a called target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

Spear swipe is much more useful than vicious attack.

You're trading a +dmg skill with the chance for deep wound for a 10 nrg skill with no +dmg that you can only use once every 20 secs; not to mention that it forces you to enter the fray without as much protection as the other frontliners.

Faye Aeris · May 01, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Oh, I missed the bit about paragons having to frontline when using swipe. My response is that in PvE, enemies tend to never target the paragon unless he/she is explicitly blocking the path to an enemy's intended target. Once a melee gts aggro, it is usually impossible for a paragon to take it. Also, caster monsters like to target mid/backlines with their aoe, which might make the frontline actually a safer place.

CrimsonDaggers · May 01, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

He added [[For Great Justice (PVE)] to take him beyond 33% adren gain.

Furthermore, Soldier's Fury inceases attack by 33% which by default leads to yet more Adrenaline sooner! You see, my friends, Attack Speed > Adrenal Gain because I am getting the same amount of adrenal strikes and doing more DPS

Saraneth · May 01, 2009, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

My response is that in PvE, enemies tend to never target the paragon unless he/she is explicitly blocking the path to an enemy's intended target.

Hoping that the enemy won't notice you is not a solution.

Faye Aeris · May 01, 2009, 03:57 AM // 03:57

If we consider only the ability to keep SY up, Soldier's Fury becomes more efficient than FA/AR at rank 10 allegiance or higher (SY duration of 6).

Math:

With Fury: attack every 1s, 1.33 adren/hit = 6 hits for SY = 6 secs for charged SY.

With FA/AR: attack every 1.13s, 2 adren/hit = 4 hits for SY = 4.62 secs

So yes, it IS a viable build. If the not-perma SY bothers you, bring an orders hero. This also is not considering other benefits, such as an extra skill slot and no cracked armor, among other things. OH! To OP: Theyre on Fire synergizes with Anthem of Flame AND stacks with the effect of SY. Also it is permanently maintainable, making it useful for Soldier's Fury. Plus it doesn't take adren which is always good.

To the poster above me, please be a little more polite with your replies, we are brainstormig, not trying to start fighting. As a reply: it's not hoping they don't notice you, it's exploiting the AI tendency to never target the paraon in a group. Also, ive already stated that being up front also helps to keep the paragon out of aoe. Next time, please don't take my words out of context and try to refute only 1 point of mine. I read your arguments and reply to eah one, you should give me the same courtesy, or at the very least be more civil.

Saraneth · May 01, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

that being up front also helps to keep the paragon out of aoe

Moving helps you stay out of aoe, not sitting up front with the cool cats.

Faye Aeris · May 01, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

okay, my long reply just got deleted.

Short version:

Paragons move out of aoe, only direction to go wjile keepig allies in shout range is forward. While up there, how bouts the paragon shuts down source of aoe before healers explode?

Blazing stats:

Damage if blocked 0, max damage 63
Energy cost: 5

Anthem
Damage if blocked and worst case scenaeio (everyone attacks same target at exact same moment in time): 28
Max damage: 224 (8x2x14)
Energy cost: 0, or net gain

Axel Zinfandel · May 01, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Yeah, ok, it might be good for higher ranks of allegiance, but I speak for many when I say I really don't want to grind that damn much lol.

Still, the idea of 25% IAS and fully maintainable adrenal gain (FA going above the 100% cap) is a lot better then 33% IAS with 100% adrenal gain with a 25 second downtime.

"Stand your Ground" is still pointless with SY, even if it's use is to cover the downtime of TiNtF, at least ["They're on Fire!"] would have a chance at being more useful.

Cracked armor is not a big drawback of AR if that's a main concern. It shouldn't matter, because you won't be getting attacked that often.

but sure, it's PvE, run whatever you want...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraneth

Hoping that the enemy won't notice you is not a solution.

Yeah, but knowing enemy AI is >.> It's not like they aren't predictable