Curse

lustnlood · May 12, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

this is an age old arguement but until something is done i believe i must remind the skill balancing team that paragons still exist. the same thing goes for other professions but this thing is gone to the point beyond ridiculous.

with all due respect to the skill balancing team and i mean this in the highest degree possible, have you forgotten that when you released nightfall you created a class called paragon?

a paragon at the moment is only used as an imbagon. do you see what is wrong with what i just said... 1 use in the whole game. the paragon is one of those classes i absolutely enjoy playing but when i go to pve with it they ask me to ping my build and i show some build other than imbagon. i am asked to change to the imbagon build and upon saying no they tell me that they have no use for me, even more so now with the HM missions. for this reason i end up H/H playing with my paragon in a game which i only play because actual skill is required and i enjoy the fact that other people are playing it with me.

with regards to pvp - HA, GvG, TA,RA,HB do you ever see a paragon? NO. what does that show? this shows that the class has become useless. therefore i come to my fundamental question. Do you really intend to render a class unusable as a primary profession after so many hours upon hours of scripting them? are you in any way masochists?

so, for the millionth time, fix that darned class.

Abond is useless, revert it. SoR is useless, fix it. DA, passable. SoP, useless, fix it. IJaFW, fix it, AoG, not even used in rspike anymore in ha, fix it. AoF, gah no comment. Cautery, /slitwrists.

and now witht he meta being made a split meta, what on earth is a party-requiring profession good for anymore. at least it was a bit concevable to take a para with Abond for a split maybe bonding the melee guys. now nothing. i know im saying this late but please i will keep nagging and whining till they are fixed because its a complete waste on both sides, both for players who spent so much money customizing one (me) and for you who have spent so much time and money to make one.

And by the way, sometimes it helps to listen and read posts which the community makes. skill balancers have their hands full with work but the players play the game and from what can be said some truth can naturally be extracted.

with regards to their power in 8v8. yes they are powerful but that is the name of the game, and they do not look so powerful to me when necros and mesmers are around. im sorry but if your mesmer or ranger can;t interrupt a DA, he is completely and utterly incompetant. and i never see anyone complaining about that partywide degen spell that hurts the backline so much

with regards to unremovability. true they cannot be removed but i heard well of silence, ulcerous lungs and vocal minority are really good vs paragons so don't say stupid things.

in conclusion i hope ANET start to think things through before executing certain actions and i honestly hope that instead of simply performing the updates they start talking PUBLICALLY about what they are about to do. 10 minds are better than 1 or 2. thank you.

Lord Of Blame · May 12, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Everything you said is why I won't make a paragon.

Longasc · May 12, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

What shall we say. This happens all too often, in this case to an entire class.

Personally, I would not bet that they do something major to make Paragons more enjoyable till GW2 release, and then I am not sure what is going to happen to GW1. I guess they are content that there is at least the TNTF build left for Paragons.

lewis91 · May 12, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Of Blame

Everything you said is why I won't make a paragon.

same... Made a paragon once, got to level 20 and then realised how useless they are.

They need more than some loving, i think i even like ritualists more than these guys.

Winterclaw · May 12, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Paragons were made after Anet decided they weren't going to focus on PvP anymore.

Evil_Necro · May 12, 2009, 11:30 PM // 23:30

I was thrilled at the prospect at my paragon, got her to lvl 20 and made some interesting build..

but after a while..

mule.. >.>

Black Metal · May 12, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

my thoughts on Paragons also stands for Dervs. They really are only useful in PvE. For Paragons to be useful, you need all your allies in a tight little bunch, so all those chants and shouts affect everyone. That would be a gigantic tactical disadvantage in PvP. What more can you say.....the very fundamental way Paragons are most effective is a huge no-no in PvP. Make any skill tweaks you want, you won't see them in PvP.

As for Dervs, it's very similar. For Dervs to be most effective, they need to have 3 targets holding hands. Again, that won't ever happen in PvP. In PvE, they can tear through low- to mid-level mobs. It's just the way they were conceived, that puts them at an inherent disadvantage in PvP. I don't really see a way around this, skill tweaks notwithstanding, unles they were completely overhauled, which won't happen.

Just don't use them in PvP is all I can say. There's just no way around it.

Bowstring Badass · May 12, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Can the same be said about assassins?

Dre · May 12, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewis91

same... Made a paragon once, got to level 20 and then realised how useless they are.

They need more than some loving, i think i even like ritualists more than these guys.

This

last time I logged in on my para (or rit) was to check if they didn't have any birthday presents yet

Captain Krompdown · May 12, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by dre

this

last time i logged in on my para (or rit) was to check if they didn't have any birthday presents yet

^^^^^ qft ^^^^^

shillo · May 12, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Somebody brought up paras on the Wiki back in March. Izzy in fact replied (below, 'agree' refers to the question asked on the Wiki).

Quote:

I would agree here, a lot of the issues with the paragon is the fact that the tipping points with his resources so easily go from manageable to infinite, without some better gating mechanics to control the flow of resources you have to fully rely on recharge to gate his play. This is dangerous because in Guild Wars you can manipulate every resource which means if any skill is balanced by purely 1 resource it will become overpowered, and sense this class is allmost purely gated by 1 resource it's very easy for the whole class to cause problems. Add in high armor, instant cast skills, healing, res, and why not bring more!

Context: http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?...update_march_5

So yeah, they're useless, because anything else would be worse until they get a deep overhaul - something I doubt anyone at Anet will dare do, for fear of completely breaking the game balance for a long period of time.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · May 12, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I wish ANET would forget about Assassins as well or any of the new classes.

Forgetting about Paragons was the best thing that ever happened.

street peddler · May 12, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

Can the same be said about assassins?

all of the added classes have a problem in one way or another.

rit - spawning power sucks
assassin - isnt as dependable and consistent as a warrior
dervish - same as sin, just doesnt compare to the warrior, anything that makes it into high-end PvP is just blatantly overpowered/ a gimmick (wounding strike, AoM, Grenths Aura spiker)
paragon - nerfs nerfing nerfs nerfing nerfs, etc..Anet probably regrets making this class in the first place.

slowerpoke · May 12, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

the expansion classes just dont fit, might have been a better idea to extend the core than add extra ones. or just designed better ones

afterall the original ones cover all the bases and the game was originally designed and balanced around them, they feel out of place.

Executioners Blood · May 12, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

I agree...they have one use in the game; well two actually, one is to added extra armor as a P/W then their is the mule character that mine has turned into.

DaTa78 · May 12, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

are you crazy paragons rule!! in pvp i use incoming top it off with fall back as an entire party heal added with a monk it really provides speed and easy heal, also go for the eyes, anthem of envy and 2 ranger spikes, with one axe liner
deep wound, sav, burn= fast death

Sarevok Thordin · May 13, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

The problem with paragons started with the Incoming chains that flooded HA for a while and rained HELL with overly defensive power in an already defensive meta. When Anet had to control that, people just made whole teams of them, then Anet had to murder Incoming into the plate of CRAP that it is now. They just didn't count on people going to such lengths to abuse powerful skills, and players not wanting to take anti-shout skills to stop them in favour of something they are more used to.

Dervishes are not too bad, they have some uses if you work around their weak points (Like slow attack speed), AoG really caused alot of QQing when the defensive meta loyal got angry when their fortress was being smacked apart. I loved the old AoG, bring it back for a week Anet :P

Ritualists = Spirit Spam = Bad, Just bad, No, never do this. Turtling = not fun.

Assassins = Highest solo spike damage potential in the game and quite a thing for newbies to wiki builds for to take into the unorganised PvP arena RA. Scorned by organized players.

Stealth Assassin · May 13, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

There is another positive thing about a Paragon:

They have some kickass FoW armor!

own age myname · May 13, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Paragons used to own HA. But those days have died...

Daesu · May 13, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaTa78

are you crazy paragons rule!! in pvp i use incoming top it off with fall back as an entire party heal added with a monk it really provides speed and easy heal, also go for the eyes, anthem of envy and 2 ranger spikes, with one axe liner
deep wound, sav, burn= fast death

Shhh...dont tell them paragons are overpowered. It is best to let them think we are underpowered...