Curse

CrimsonDaggers · Apr 30, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I've been playing around with this using it for PvE and it seems to do well. I especially use it if I am vanquishing. However, I am always looking for ways to improve, if you have an idea, I am open to it!

[Soldier's Fury; OQCjUqmJ6SKYDZzgWYtb1YAhybA]

The point of the build is to fuel energy with ["Go for the eyes!"] to use ["Stand your Ground!"] and ["There's Nothing to Fear!"] to boost the party. Also, ["Stand your Ground!"] and ["There's Nothing to Fear!"] should be staggered so that [Soldier's Fury] works throughout it's duration.

[Soldier's Fury] and [Spear of Fury] are used to fuel ["Go for the eyes!"] so that energy is available at all times.

Pros: Decent damage while giving a major boost to the team because anytime you can use skills that decrease the amount of energy the monks have to put out is a plus.

Cons: SS can put this build on hold, but one can just spam the shouts until the SS is removed or has run it's duration.

samerkablamer · Apr 30, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

FgJ+SY+TntF+Focused Anger+Agressive Refrain > any soldiers fury build

Gift3d · Apr 30, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I love playing soldier's fury on my para. The only thing though is i use [save yourselves] for the +armor for party and [watch yourself] just to maintain the IAS on soldier's fury and for energy management.

CrimsonDaggers · Apr 30, 2009, 06:00 AM // 06:00

@samerkablamer From my experience, [soldier's fury] > [focused anger] because i not only gain adrenaline, but i attack 1/3 faster - basically meaning that I do 1/3 more damage over time.

It's like having two skills in one, your [focused anger] and [aggressive refrain] put into one skill

@Gift3d - what would you replace with those skills you mentioned?

samerkablamer · May 09, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

It is actually not like having two skills in one. You must maintain a chant in order to use it, so that takes up another slot. Also, 25% ias + atleast 100% adrenaline gain is MUCH better than 33% faster attack speed and 33% adrenaline gain. Also, if you are going to bring cracked armor into this, then obviously you don't know that paras barely get attacked anyways.

Ney Matogrosso · May 11, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by samerkablamer

It is actually not like having two skills in one. You must maintain a chant in order to use it, so that takes up another slot. Also, 25% ias + atleast 100% adrenaline gain is MUCH better than 33% faster attack speed and 33% adrenaline gain. Also, if you are going to bring cracked armor into this, then obviously you don't know that paras barely get attacked anyways.

Well, using [Aggressive Refrain] plus [Focused Anger] if the time to spear recast on atack is 1,5s a increase of 25% make your atack recast time reduced to 1,125s and at least 100% more adrenaline will give you 106 adrenal points per minute (53 atacks in one minute). Using [Soldier's Fury] a increase of 33% give you 1,005s and more 33% adrenaline will give you 79,4 adrenal points per minute. However, if you use a double adrenaline 10%, in the first case you gain more adrenaline in 5,3 atacks that correspond to more 20 points in a total of 126 points per minute, in theory. In the second case you have the chance to double adrenaline in 8 atacks that gives you 100,68 points per minute. Statiscaly, 126 or 100 are a small diference and you probably don't see many diferences in adrenaline gain, and if you use [Spear of Fury] really, tha gain is the same or more, using [Soldier's Fury] and you can give more damage. But what really matter is the fact that you gain a free slot to use another skill, this could make the diference between kill and die.
I'm testing the build of the topic with the modification proposed and, to me, is working better than the usual Imbagon Build.

Whitout Paragons or Warriors heroes don't work so well, be good with a Order, but the Imbagon basic with the same heroes was better, in my opnion...

Posts Merged by Cebe: Please use the button rather than double posting!

Bobby2 · May 12, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonDaggers

@samerkablamer From my experience, [soldier's fury] > [focused anger] because i not only gain adrenaline, but i attack 1/3 faster - basically meaning that I do 1/3 more damage over time.

You should have max Spear Mastery.

Proposed spec:
Spear......... 12+1+1
Leadership... 9+1
Command.... 9+1

FoxBat · May 13, 2009, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ney Matogrosso

I'm testing the build of the topic with the modification proposed and, to me, is working better than the usual Imbagon Build.

Where this might have some real potential is with orders support, the extra IAS becomes much more significant for adren gain.

Axel Zinfandel · May 14, 2009, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ney Matogrosso

...
I'm testing the build of the topic with the modification proposed and, to me, is working better than the usual Imbagon Build.

The thing about your math is that you aren't exactly factoring how long battles actually last. generally, it takes a long time for SF to actually add up to being better then AR+FA

JoeKnowMo · May 14, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

I've been running with SF and the major benefit I find is that I don't have to keep shouting/chanting in between fights to keep AR up.

The downside is that you have to waste slot on a shout. I use ToF! and hope I have some burning damage in the group or I'll bring AoF if there are other physicals. I suppose that WY! is also an option.

If I compare the slight increase in IAS to the slight decrease in adrenaline gain it seems like a push to me.

I think the deciding factor is how much of a pain you find keeping up AR as well as the additional slot gained if you used to bring FGJ!

I'd replace SYG! with WY! or ToF! and GFTE! with Anthem of Weariness on the OP's bar. AoW pairs well with Spear of Fury for quick activation of SY!

Bobby2 · May 14, 2009, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

If I compare the slight increase in IAS

I too would call 8% 'slight'

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

to the slight decrease in adrenaline gain

From +>100% to +33% isn't 'slight' in my book

zwei2stein · May 14, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

SF requires you to bring sub-par shout to reliably maintain it.

So it does not really save any skill slots at all.

So it is really

SF + Wasted slot vs AR + FA

not

SF vs AP+FA

evenfall · May 14, 2009, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

SF requires you to bring sub-par shout to reliably maintain it.

So it does not really save any skill slots at all.

So it is really

SF + Wasted slot vs AR + FA

not

SF vs AP+FA

It saves a skill slot because you don't need For Great Justice!. So it is

[skill]Soldier's Fury[/skill] + Shout
vs
[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] + [skill]Focused Anger[/skill] + [skill]For Great Justice![/skill]

IMO Soldier's Fury is better when you have 6s of SY! and thus can maintain it 24/7(add spear of fury if you are lazy), thus negating the main advantage of FA+FGJ.

With SF + 6s SY!, you gain
33% IAS vs 25% IAS
1 extra skill slot + 1 sub-par shout
No Cracked Armor
No henchmen wasting energy removing cracked armor if you run with H/H

downside
lower adrenaline gain

JoeKnowMo · May 14, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

From +>100% to +33% isn't 'slight' in my book

Going by what Ney said, the difference is minor, imo - 79 vs 106 adrenaline/min.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ney Matogrosso

Well, using [Aggressive Refrain] plus [Focused Anger] if the time to spear recast on atack is 1,5s a increase of 25% make your atack recast time reduced to 1,125s and at least 100% more adrenaline will give you 106 adrenal points per minute (53 atacks in one minute). Using [Soldier's Fury] a increase of 33% give you 1,005s and more 33% adrenaline will give you 79,4 adrenal points per minute. However, if you use a double adrenaline 10%, in the first case you gain more adrenaline in 5,3 atacks that correspond to more 20 points in a total of 126 points per minute, in theory. In the second case you have the chance to double adrenaline in 8 atacks that gives you 100,68 points per minute.

Tzalaran · May 19, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

in my experience, using SF for SY spam doesn't work as well as the AR+FA/FJG combo.

SF+SoF allows you to keep up 3 SY and then i always had a 5-8 sec downtime of SY, where with FA/FJG +AR SY never really comes down for long unless soothing images sticks on the para.

Where SF really shines is in damage dealing builds with another paragon pumping out shouts. 2 TNtFs should keep SF up all the time, and the damage potential of SF with Vamp spearheads shouldn't be overlooked. (15 attacks in 15 sec vs. about 13 with AR)

i ran SF, TNtF, SY, SoF, Sig Return, and 3 spear attacks for a long time and was able to put out decent damage with this build, but couldn't keep up SY all the time. So it really depends on if you are trying to be a SY engine which build is better. when i'm running with another para, one of us takes SF to put out damage while the other is the typical imbagon to pump out 83% damage reduction for our party.

(Furious mods are worthless imo. bring Vamp or sundering (ele heads for warrior targets) the 10% chance for double adrenaline isn't consistent enough of a gain to me to warrant lessening the damage capability...

Axel Zinfandel · May 19, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

under 33% IAS you attack about once per second. if you're using an orders hero (which I do in every physical heavy team), you'll gain 2 adrenaline each second, not counting the increased adrenal gain from SF.

in four seconds, you'll gain 8 adrenaline. If you're getting a 5-8 second downtime of SY!, I'm assuming you're not using an order's hero.

They are nice

Xenomortis · May 19, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Under a 33% increased attack speed, you will gain 50% more adrenaline than normal.
Normally, you will attack once every 1.5 seconds with a spear. In 3 seconds, you will gain 2 adrenaline.
Under a 33% IAS, you will gain 3 adrenaline in 3 seconds.
Under Soldier's Fury, you will gain 4 adrenaline in 3 seconds.
You can therefore, reapply Save Yourselves in 6 seconds.
SY! has a 4-6 second duration, therefore your downtime should not be too big.

You shouldn't ever suffer 5-8 seconds of downtime with SY. You're probably doing something wrong. Even with a low Kurz/Lux rank, you should only have 2-3 seconds of downtime max.

Taking Spear of Fury will also increase adrenaline gain, reducing the amount of downtime you have (if any). It also increases your attack rate further (having a 1 second base attack speed).

You shouldn't need an orders hero, but Dark Fury is nice. However, heroes aren't great at managing sacrifice.

I doubt SF will be as effective at spamming SY as a Focused Anger build, but it doesn't look too bad.

Axel Zinfandel · May 19, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

There's no reason not to bring a D/N orders IMO. It increases DPS, adrenal gain, and provides pretty good healing for party support

Grim Aragorn · May 19, 2009, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Ive been using a soldiers fury build myself lately, for noramal pve missions and vanq i like it much better, you may not be able to maintain SY Perm sometimes but who cares? With soldiers fury you dont have cracked armor either which truely does make a big diffrence. But for elite areas like DoA etc etc i would use agressive refrain + focused to keep perma SY

Tzalaran · May 20, 2009, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

under 33% IAS you attack about once per second. if you're using an orders hero (which I do in every physical heavy team), you'll gain 2 adrenaline each second, not counting the increased adrenal gain from SF.

in four seconds, you'll gain 8 adrenaline. If you're getting a 5-8 second downtime of SY!, I'm assuming you're not using an order's hero.

They are nice

you are correct. i wasn't taking an orders at the time (me and my 2 paragon heroes with my guildies filling up the rest), and with an orders spammer you would have much less trouble with adrenaline gain.