Curse

Hugh Manatee · Jun 21, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

I used to use Find their weakness with a A/P, with unsuspecting strike you hit really freaking hard, even before the update, it really was like a decapitate, but you had options to get energy much faster. Now.... Hell, You'd freaking instagib something...

ShadowbaneX · Jun 21, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

"We Shall Return!" and "Find Their Weakness" would be decent enough. Instant res and instant Decapitate. I'd save "We Shall Return!" solely as an emergency res if like 3+ players are down and have two Paragons with Signet of Return.

True, but that's about all in the command line that I could see used. If it had been a motivation skill then I could see E/P with some damage spells "WSR!" and then aria of restoration/zeal, ballad of restoration, or song of power, but I guess that's not to be. Damage and party support with one hell of a res.

Tenebrae · Jun 21, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I don't see a point in Vicious Attack really. You can pre-cast "Find Their Weakness!" before the fight ensuring your first attack hits for huge damage when the deep wound is factored in and it'll be available for the next enemy you want dead. Vicious Attack plus "Go For The Eyes!" is much slower by comparison, isn't a guarantee, Vicious Attack itself can miss/block/dodge, and takes two skill slots. Don't get me wrong the combo is really good but "Find Their Weakness" packs a lot of punch into a single skill; it has the same +damage as Decapitate without the loss of all energy and adrenaline. Oh, and it isn't elite too.

I dont see the point on "Findtheirweakness" too. Ok , you can ensure it on the first atttack like anthem of envy but then what ? its on 1 target only and Gfte ensures a critical on every party member plus yourself and with Vicious Attack youll always get the DW unless its blocked ( maybe 5% of the times if you play wise ? ).
The other one can be blocked too and even you do it on the first attack you can spam Gfte like .... 4 or 5 times on a fight ? .
FTweaknesses its a good pack but a single bonus for a single ally every 15 segs + DW isnt as good to me to a impressive +%adding to ALL party members ( including minions ) you can spam + DW every 8 secs.
I guess if you are the only para or only carry 1 or 2 phys and no minions Ftweaknesses is a good option but with 3 or 4 phys attckers ( even 2 or more paras with that skill ) and minions .... i dont buy that either.

Perfected Shadow · Jun 22, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

If you use GFTE while the Vicious Attack spear is flying will that flying spear have boosted crit chance?

Kendel · Jun 22, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It's an emergency skill and a very powerful one under the right conditions. Against bosses with hard, fast hitting AoEs it would definitely prove its worth. However if the instant usage aspect draws your attention I'd consider burning an elite slot on Unyielding Aura instead, an instant to 1/4 cast 100% health/energy res that requires no spec on a 10 second cooldown.

And of course UA has the benefit of actually justifying a slot through its 63% increased healing when people aren't dead. I mean in a situation where you need We Shall Return because 2+ people have just been killed, your party is more than likely already doomed. If people have stood too close and got nuked its there own fault, still not a justifiable reason to take WSR. Mid battle resses are far more important and WSR just doesn't qualify.

As for Find Their Weakness. I did use to run Vicious/GftE. But recently i've found more use from just running Merciless Spear. Its adren based so you can recharge it almost immediately with Spear of Fury. Its cost and recharge are just too much for me to consider it worth taking tbh.

snaek · Jun 22, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by racthoh

I don't see a point in Vicious Attack really. You can pre-cast "Find Their Weakness!" before the fight ensuring your first attack hits for huge damage when the deep wound is factored in and it'll be available for the next enemy you want dead. Vicious Attack plus "Go For The Eyes!" is much slower by comparison, isn't a guarantee, Vicious Attack itself can miss/block/dodge, and takes two skill slots. Don't get me wrong the combo is really good but "Find Their Weakness" packs a lot of punch into a single skill; it has the same +damage as Decapitate without the loss of all energy and adrenaline. Oh, and it isn't elite too.

even without [vicious attack], ["go for the eyes!"] is superior. its party-wide benefit with spammability in terms of dmg bonus and e-management make it far more attractive. ["find their weakness!"] is a good spike skill... but who wants spike in pve? its all about the dps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by racthoh

It's an emergency skill and a very powerful one under the right conditions. Against bosses with hard, fast hitting AoEs it would definitely prove its worth. However if the instant usage aspect draws your attention I'd consider burning an elite slot on Unyielding Aura instead, an instant to 1/4 cast 100% health/energy res that requires no spec on a 10 second cooldown.

exactly. most resses in pve are usually emergency situations that don't occur too often. therefore 1) wasting an elite slot on something that may or may not happen is not the best idea, and 2) the recharge buff on [signet of return] is irrelevant, because if you have to be casting consistently on recharge, there is something wrong. aside from that, ["we shall return!"] is a far more attractive skill because you can use it on paragon secondary midline, whereas [signet of return] is stuck on paragon primary.

dusanyu · Jun 22, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Find There Weakness Should be an elite now

lets compare to a Beloved Warrior Elite for its effect

Eviscerate at 16 axe mastery +33 + DW

Find there weakness at 13 command +44 Damage and deep wound on the targets next attack

Fun Scenario to think about Paragon and War with 16 axe mastery in party paragon Stacks GFTE and FTW , The warrior Unleashes a executioners strike at the same time.

so you have Crit Damage + 42 damage from Executioners + the DW and +44 Damage from the Shout effect (can we say one Shot kill)

lets just say Warriors and Paragons are going to be big palls now

snaek · Jun 22, 2009, 01:23 AM // 01:23

^your reading it wrong... its a single-target shout. and last time i checked...[eviscerate] isn't used often in pve. and if it is, it can be spammed much faster than in pvp due to increased adren-gaining abilities in pve.

dusanyu · Jun 22, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

^your reading it wrong... its a single-target shout. and last time i checked...[eviscerate] isn't used often in pve. and if it is, it can be spammed much faster due to increased adren-gaining abilities in pve compared to pvp.

yeah i reread the Skill after i posted Either way Still is Still Awesomely over powered

ajc2123 · Jun 22, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

yeah i reread the Skill after i posted Either way Still is Still Awesomely over powered

+44 damage every 15 seconds is laughable with my warrior alone. My war comes with Deep wound also...

FAR from overpowered lol. Its like a bad 10 energy attack skill that you can use every 15 seconds.

I'm starting to doubt its usefulness after I thought it was so great.

With a sword/axe and IAS (warriors SHOULD have IAS) Thats roughly +2 damage for every attack at 15 second intervals with a deep wound effect. Would much rather bring Strength of honor MYSELF and not even on a monk then put this on a fellow paragon lol. Maybe If I was a ranger and couldn't inflict deep wound......other then that though....meh.

Arkantos · Jun 22, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusanyu

yeah i reread the Skill after i posted Either way Still is Still Awesomely over powered

Overpowered? No.
Powerful? Yes.

Kendel · Jun 23, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

+44 damage every 15 seconds is laughable with my warrior alone. My war comes with Deep wound also...

FAR from overpowered lol. Its like a bad 10 energy attack skill that you can use every 15 seconds.

I'm starting to doubt its usefulness after I thought it was so great.

With a sword/axe and IAS (warriors SHOULD have IAS) Thats roughly +2 damage for every attack at 15 second intervals with a deep wound effect. Would much rather bring Strength of honor MYSELF and not even on a monk then put this on a fellow paragon lol. Maybe If I was a ranger and couldn't inflict deep wound......other then that though....meh.

Exactly, the energy cost is 1 thing but a 15s recharge on your only Deep Wound is too much, you could cause more damage by spamming GftE during that time to cause additional crits and using another, more reliable skill for Critting. Its mainly recharge thats causing me to overlook it, it would be an ideal skill for an unconditional DW and +dmg on my Ele's Hayda, but its recharge (and in some ways its e cost too if the recharge was reduced) are just too much.

Reduce its damage and in turn, its e cost/recharge to compensate imo.

Also, thanks to Finish Him i wouldn't consider this on Ranger.

Lishy · Jun 23, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

I'd say to remove the deep wound and lower the recharge and cost.
Having a shout-able Power Attack is fun.

Reverend Dr · Jun 24, 2009, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Overpowered? No.
Powerful? Yes.

The way its worded would imply +dmg on every hit for the duration, which would be a bit overpowered. Its current form of +dmg once every 15 seconds certainly isn't overpowered in the current scheme of PvE split and PvE-only skills.

Tenebrae · Jun 24, 2009, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow

If you use GFTE while the Vicious Attack spear is flying will that flying spear have boosted crit chance?

Yeh , thats the way you use it to grant a DW. Im starting to work some synrg builds with Paras , Rangers and Warriors. That would be an awesome phys team with proper timing and targeting for shouts and chants.

PD: Moti casting times still annoying