Curse

jigenbakuda · Dec 17, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

K... I really love the skill "there nothing to fear", but it doesn't last long enough, so I'm setting out on a quest to build a build off of that skill. Here is what I have so far. Use vocal was sogolon to lengthen it, and remove myself from the damage / support hybrid role, and move myself into the prot / heal hybrid role. So minor healing and minor protection.

Now before I go on, please do not mention imbagon and how awesome it is, and how its the only build paras should run... I know that, k thanks, thats not helping me. Do not compare this build to imbagon either... I get it, run imba if I want to be a non-sucky noob para.. whatever, I said it for you, please don't mention it again in this thread.

Now onto the build.

Its a motivation/ resto build. I have not decided on optimal attribute distribution, so I'll just say..

11 or so in resto
10 or so in motivation (major rune)
14 in leadership (major rune)

Vocal was Sogolon (lengthen shouts / chants by around 42%)
soothing memories (heal for like 75 give you back 3 en if holding an item spell)
signet of synergy (heals for 80 methinks, plus heals yourself for the same if not enchanted)
There is nothing to fear (15 en get back 7en if with a full party)
ballad of restoration (10 en get back 7en if with a full party)
anthem of flame (5en get back 7 if you have a full party)
signet of return (your rez)
cautery signet (party wide full condition removal, but sets you on fire)

K so energy isn't a problem, I have lots of signets / free skills. Hex removal is a problem (but its always a problem, both classes have no hex removal, so I guess its on the healer or mesmer). The party will probably be fine with this build and just a woh hybrid prot healer, I was fine with just mehnlo.

Uhm, players dying, lowers your efficiency, naturally because you are a para... also hex degen hurts a lot and you might not be able to save everybody if the game is using a lot of aoe hexes.

So how can you improve this build? What skills are obsolete in your opinion, what skills are missing in your opinion? Try it out, I was thinking about bringing the spirit "life"... Just give it a whirl and tell me what's up

Please remember no adrenaline skills as you will be holding sogolon's ashes. Looking forward to reading replys on this.

Painbringer · Dec 17, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

The big thing you will hear is why

There's is nothing to fear is a great skill but so is Save yourselves which is even better.

You could add "They're on Fire!" and base your group on burning and fire damage

Mix it with Blazing Finale and add a fast recharged shout like go for the eye's. You then keep it on your melee character at all times. It is a long burn and you can sustain with all three skills some sort of damage reduction at all times

and for the hex thing Hexbreaker Aria helps not great but helps

Betrayer of Wind · Dec 17, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Vocal makes no sense in that build,since your chants ends imediately after taking dmg or using an atk skill.
Finale of restoration and spam go for the eyes if u want nice healing.More restoration chants too.

paddymew · Dec 17, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Anthem of Flame and Aria of Restoration are worth nothing in comparison to Energizing Chorus and Ballad of Restoration.

jigenbakuda · Dec 17, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Thank you for your replies

@painbringer
Why? Because I want to do something different and use a skill that most regard as trash. I think that they are on fire is a great option, I will need to test it to see how my energy fares. And hex breaker aria is an adrenaline skill, so I can not use it as I'm holding sogolon's ashes.

@Betrayer of Wind
"Vocal makes no sense in that build,since your chants ends imediately after taking dmg or using an atk skill.
Finale of restoration and spam go for the eyes if u want nice healing.More restoration chants too. "

Uhm.. as was stated in the original post, the build is based on keeping "there's nothing to fear" up with sogolon's ashes there is only about 3 seconds of downtime for "there is nothing to fear" As my build is currently. I agree with you on finale though. I also would like to but that in my build, and throw it on my melees if they are getting hammered, but that skill would require go for the eyes, taking up 2 slots, worth considering.

@paddymew
"Anthem of Flame and Aria of Restoration are worth nothing in comparison to Energizing Chorus and Ballad of Restoration. "

My apologies I mistyped, I will edit my first post, I got mixed up, I do indeed run ballad of restoration, not aria... that's my mistake in typing too fast. And energizing chorus is an adrenaline skill, as such I can not use it ... I am holding sogolon's ashes.

I take it no one actually wants to try the build, eh... its to be expected. But I am truly thankful for your replies and criticism, I'd love to hear more.

At first I ran this build command,which has more skills to benefit from sogolon's ashes (namely stand your ground and incoming / fallback), but I found that it takes more investment in command for it to be viable than motivation, so I went here, but if you have ideas on command sogolon builds, I'll try those too.

When messing with attributes, I either take a second away from "there's nothing to fear", or I take 2% away from sogolon's effect... Seeing as my build was made to lengthen "there's nothing to fear", I am stuck with the current attributes... Unless someone else has an idea...

Edit: Took a variant of the build out in HM do do an old z-quest (mungri), I had energy issues. I can not spam/ maintain skills, I could get more used to it, but the motivation one was easier to play, it felt more comfortable. I took 1 healer (danika) out in Hm H/H and it worked fine. We had a person die a couple times but that was fighting more than 1 mob at a time... I'd say the forrest in factions is of moderate difficulty and I had no problems, so with tweaking I think this might become one of my favorite fun builds.

zelgadissan · Dec 17, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Why not just Echo with There's Nothing to Fear instead of Cautery? That way you'll be able to keep TNTF up for any legitimate length battle, you won't be holding ashes so you can actually be productive with a spear, and if for some reason the battle lasts long enough that the skill goes back to Echo, you know your team sucks ass.

Jk Arrow · Dec 17, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

The problem with using just energy based shouts on a para instead of using a combination of energy and adrenaline shouts is you will eventually run out. Adrenaline shouts give paras the energy needed to spam the high energy shouts such as TNTF.

When putting together any build you have to ask yourself, what am I trying to accomplish with this build and what purpose does it serve in my team? A build should never be based around one skill unless that particular skill is the best option for the task you wish to accomplish.

So I will ask the question since you are focusing on TNTF, is the build you are trying to make to mitigate as much damage as possible?

If so, there are other skills that help that, which is why SY Imba is popular for this role.

If your build is to heal, there are better options than a para primary. But that's probably not what you want to hear...

jigenbakuda · Dec 18, 2009, 12:32 AM // 00:32

More comments, thanks.

@zelgadissan
"Why not just Echo with There's Nothing to Fear instead of Cautery?"

Lol, to be honest, sogolon was doing a kick @ss job with it, so I just liked it and put it in the bar, its there just because I like it... no rhyme or reason, outside of the awesome clean up potential.

@Jk Arrow

"When putting together any build you have to ask yourself, what am I trying to accomplish with this build and what purpose does it serve in my team?"

Well this build I was tying to accomplish 1 thing, make vocal was sogolon be useful, the skill itself is only useful for prolonging chants / shouts, but most of them end on a condition... So anyways I found that TNTF could be helped by this skill, so I build a build around those 2 skills, and this is what I came up with. But you are right everything I'm doing can be done better with another character or build, such is the way of guildwars. If you aren't a war, monk, or ele, someone can do your job better (in general, excluding stuffz like ER eles and SoS rits), at least in pve.

And if you would try running the build I had in the OP, you could see there are no energy problems, I spam most skills on recharge, and I'm good. The only skills on the bar that cost are the heal @ 2 en, vocal at 10en every minute, TNTF @ 8en and the ballad for 3en, even with 2 pips of regen, thats not too much to drain me, at least not in medium difficulty pve (, probably all NM / non HM elite instances / HM end game madness), but with proper pulling, nothing is difficult in pve. With an investment of 10 or more in leadership 5en chants / shouts are free, so my anthem of flame nets me 2 en.

But the problem that I see as a new member to the GW community is that, there is the best build and nothing else should be run, why run something that works less efficiently? I'm just playing with skills, using them in ways no one else is, I just wanted some feedback on my madness and I got it, I'm satisfied with the responses, just wanting to know peoples opinions outside of, "its not imba, so don't run it".

The heal was added, simply because it had an effect when holding an item...

"If your build is to heal, there are better options than a para primary. But that's probably not what you want to hear... "

Oh no that was a great comment, you said something and gave me a reason why, criticism is what I want to hear, just not baseless and simple responses that do not allow me to grow as a player, such as "build suxz 12char".

Jk Arrow · Dec 18, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jigenbakuda

Well this build I was tying to accomplish 1 thing, make vocal was sogolon be useful, the skill itself is only useful for prolonging chants / shouts, but most of them end on a condition...

Actually I find it useful for extending incoming and fall back for running builds. Either Rit/P or P/Rit. They work surprisingly well.

But good luck with your build. Important to have fun in this game.

iToasterHD · Dec 18, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I haven't had time yet to fully read and give advice. But there is one thing I wanted to add. A lot of people will do exactly what you said you don't want, and you have to take some things with a grain of salt. However, be careful not to become too zealous with your build. It very well may not be great, or even good, and that's okay because you tried. Which is a lot more than most people can say. But a lot of people on this forum are extremely well traversed in this game and know a thing or two. So listen and take their advice, and don't get too caught up trying to make something new. It is a balance between being creative and recognizing what works. Try not to let your own bias hold you down.

AtomicMew · Dec 18, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

I haven't had time yet to fully read and give advice. But there is one thing I wanted to add. A lot of people will do exactly what you said you don't want, and you have to take some things with a grain of salt. However, be careful not to become too zealous with your build. It very well may not be great, or even good, and that's okay because you tried. Which is a lot more than most people can say. But a lot of people on this forum are extremely well traversed in this game and know a thing or two. So listen and take their advice, and don't get too caught up trying to make something new. It is a balance between being creative and recognizing what works. Try not to let your own bias hold you down.

There is no point in re-inventing the wheel. An imbagon will do everything this build will do and better and moreover, do damage as well.

If the OP doesn't care about playing decent builds, then why is he asking for advice on making his build better when he is a carebear? Just take whatever skills look pretty and continue your stroll down candy lane.

There's no point in giving advice that doesn't strike at the root of the problem, which is, your build is conceptually flawed and is inferior to existing builds in every way.

jigenbakuda · Dec 18, 2009, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

There is no point in re-inventing the wheel. An imbagon will do everything this build will do and better and moreover, do damage as well.

If the OP doesn't care about playing decent builds, then why is he asking for advice on making his build better when he is a carebear? Just take whatever skills look pretty and continue your stroll down candy lane.

There's no point in giving advice that doesn't strike at the root of the problem, which is, your build is conceptually flawed and is inferior to existing builds in every way.

Just like I was saying before...there is no concept of a decent build, there is only the best and everything under the best sucks. Why is there no decent under the best in guildwars, its because those builds under the best are conceptually flawed and inferior to the best. By webster's definition my build is decent (fairly good), although it is not the best, so please don't say stuff like that... its just plain not true... and it makes you seem like a child just saying anything to hurt another child's feelings irregardless of the words uttered.

FoxBat · Dec 18, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Defensive anthem, TNTF, GFtE, serpent's quickness, dwarven stability, aggressive refrain, optionals

Not a bad build and quite a bit more fun than imba spam.

Tenebrae · Dec 18, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Never liked a 2pip energy regen char to use caster skills. Even when using motivation skills P has a hard time. Motivation needs a good buff at least in pve to be as useful as command.
For the OP , soz pal , i think you should try to sync with another P ( hero or human ) to make some combos that can do well in some areas ..... if you are alone , imbagon is going to beat you in anyway imo .

The Riven · Dec 18, 2009, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Motivation needs a good buff at least in pve to be as useful as command.
.

^ This.

Unfortunately the Mot line is not as strong as command, by not using adren skills as well you are severely limiting the effectiveness of your build. Take away the PvE skills and what your left with is always going to struggle.
A good example of this is your choice of elite, its no attrib, just goes to show.

While I commend you in wanting to experiment and get out of the constant use of one build everywhere, its going to be impossible for a single human paragon to be of more use than an Imbagon.

Simple answer is Take a mate with you and chain TNTF, doubles the usefullness and frees up your spear for adren based shouts as well.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 20, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

The reason for using Vocal Was Sogolon is to keep shouts and chants up longer... this being the case, you should almost always be affected by TNTF or other shouts and could make good use of Signet of Aggression. This would allow you to gain adrenaline even while holding Sogolon's ashes... and as we all know, paragon + high leadership + adrenaline + adrenaline shouts = energy.
IMO you might want to work signet of aggression, lyric of zeal and/or energizing chorus into the build somehow. I have a P/E build based around ToF, TNTF, and Searing Flames (!!) and it is able to spam searing flames just about forever, the build you describe should not require nearly so much energy. if you find that you STILL need more energy you can use Make Your Time and get 4 adrenaline instantly, or 8 adrenaline if you have Focused Anger or FGJ up. I use this combo on my Imbagon build to throw SY instantly.

Anyways... good luck and keep up the creative thinking!

p.s. song of purification does the same job as cautery signet, but it's an adrenaline shout, so it would actually give you energy when you use it, and you could use it more often.

jigenbakuda · Dec 21, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

The reason for using Vocal Was Sogolon is to keep shouts and chants up longer... this being the case, you should almost always be affected by TNTF or other shouts and could make good use of Signet of Aggression. This would allow you to gain adrenaline even while holding Sogolon's ashes... and as we all know, paragon + high leadership + adrenaline + adrenaline shouts = energy.
IMO you might want to work signet of aggression, lyric of zeal and/or energizing chorus into the build somehow. I have a P/E build based around ToF, TNTF, and Searing Flames (!!) and it is able to spam searing flames just about forever, the build you describe should not require nearly so much energy. if you find that you STILL need more energy you can use Make Your Time and get 4 adrenaline instantly, or 8 adrenaline if you have Focused Anger or FGJ up. I use this combo on my Imbagon build to throw SY instantly.

Anyways... good luck and keep up the creative thinking!

p.s. song of purification does the same job as cautery signet, but it's an adrenaline shout, so it would actually give you energy when you use it, and you could use it more often.

Oh great idea with the song of purification and siggie of aggression, i will be testing that out in my build today. But I will probably have too much energy flow, I need to find a skill to waste some of that energy, thank you for your contribution.

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 21, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

np :-)
i'm sure you can find ways to spend energy, especially with pve skills. but since the build goal is to increase shout length, what kind of PvE shout skills can we bring that will benefit from it. By Ural's Hammer would be lengthened but since you aren't dealing damage it wouldn't help. Don't Trip would be lengthened but its use is very conditional. Fall Back, Never Give Up, Never Surrender, Stand Your Ground are all good candidates. With the near-constant damage reduction from TNTF and +24 armor from SYG you would have a good approximation of the imbagon. Not quite as much armor for everyone else, but +24 armor for you and you don't have to worry about blind/block/miss.

If you can't come up with other ways to spend the energy then may I suggest Finish Him, Snow Storm, and Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support, all three are good damage with ~10s recharge. All of the Ebon Wards are useful as well.

edit: i just thought about using I Am Unstoppable... with VwS, this will last forever. And who can say no to unstrippable perma +24 armor and KD immunity? XD