Curse

azurebane · Nov 06, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Greetings all,

I've lurked these boards for quite a while, but haven't had much reason to post in the past. However, I've enjoyed the insights of the regulars on this forum in particular, and would now like to make use of them for my personal gain.

As I've been poking around with my para a bit more lately, some questions have come to mind. I have no problems running imba, or stunning strike spearchucking, but I'd like to diversify in areas where such might be overkill and/or tedious.

If playing as a turret, is a conjure build viable in general (for example, while running around with Sabway or a tactically oriented non-physical group)? Are there specific areas where a conjure build might be desirable (frost against Ring of Fire titans and imps, perhaps)? Are there other variants that would be more successful, such as Ritualist weapon spells, that would obviate using conjure(s)? Is the spec'ing too wonky, or the loss of com/mot in the third attribute too heinous? Any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your input.

~Azurebane

The Drunkard · Nov 06, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Haven't had a whole lot of experience with para's so please bear that in mind.

First off, you can't have three professions so you're going to need a rit or nec hero. If you want to use a wep spell+conjure, i highly reccomend grabbing a friend with great dwarf wep. The best wep spells for a turret would probably be weapon of fury, warmongers, wailing, and splinter.

As far as synergy goes, an dervish orders team would work since you are running imbagon, just keep in mind that you won't have a lot of hex/condition removal. I'd also highly reccomend asura scan on your bar if you want to play turret- which has nice synergy with a discord team.

The only problem I have with conjure builds is that you don't really have room for a cover, so you might want to look into more enchant-heavy teams when going into the latter parts of factions+nf

zelgadissan · Nov 06, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

As far as synergy goes, an dervish orders team would work

Conjures require elemental weapons, orders require physical damage with the exception of Dark Fury.

Here's why I don't like conjures on paras, and you kinda hit on it yourself:
1) You need Leadership to manage energy, not to mention Aggressive Refrain/Soldier's Fury for IAS since you want to turret.
2) You need Command/Motivation for a shield.
3) You need Spear Mastery since you're looking to do turret damage.
4) You need some sort of elemental line so that you can use a conjure.

That's spreading your attributes really thin. Say you run a 9/9/9/9 split with runes in obvious places, maybe even a major or superior. You'd probably come up with more damage by using normal imbagon attributes with Order of Pain (or Mark of Pain) than the above split with a conjure.

Chthon · Nov 06, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

1. Conjures are bad in general because you lose out on Orders, Barbs, and MoP. So conjure hurts your damage output mor ethan it helps, unless your team is running none of those buffs (in which case (a) maybe they should be, and (b) they're probably so squishy they'd really, really like you to run imbagon).

2. As zelgadissan points out, you lack the attribute points.

paddymew · Nov 06, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

What zelgadissan said. The fact that your energy management relies on shouts and chants (you being a paragon after all) makes it even less favorable. A ranger has one pip of extra energy regen, and has also got barrage for abusing the extra damage from conjure.
A paragon needs to shout a lot, and only has more armor and causes easier bleeding than a ranger.

majikmajikmajik · Nov 07, 2009, 06:36 AM // 06:36

if your going to pew pew, then run somethign other then imba.

edit: im silly of course you cant run p/w/e

Khomet Si Netjer · Dec 15, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by azurebane

Greetings all,

I've lurked these boards for quite a while, but haven't had much reason to post in the past. However, I've enjoyed the insights of the regulars on this forum in particular, and would now like to make use of them for my personal gain.

As I've been poking around with my para a bit more lately, some questions have come to mind. I have no problems running imba, or stunning strike spearchucking, but I'd like to diversify in areas where such might be overkill and/or tedious.

If playing as a turret, is a conjure build viable in general (for example, while running around with Sabway or a tactically oriented non-physical group)? Are there specific areas where a conjure build might be desirable (frost against Ring of Fire titans and imps, perhaps)? Are there other variants that would be more successful, such as Ritualist weapon spells, that would obviate using conjure(s)? Is the spec'ing too wonky, or the loss of com/mot in the third attribute too heinous? Any other thoughts?

Thanks in advance for your input.

~Azurebane

hi there,
I have had good results with Conjure X in pvp formats like RA, the damage it adds to every attack is significant, and you maximize this by attacking faster. It is the same philosophy as the W/E with Conjure X but more consistent damage in general because the paragon doesn't care much about kiting, snaring, crippling, bodyblocking, etc.

I run 14 spear (12+1+1), 8 leadership (7+1), 8 fire magic, 9 command (8+1). This gives +13 damage to every attack from Conjure Flame, and I stack that with Soldier's Fury and Can't Touch This for permanent +33% IAS and +50% adrenaline gain. Pick four adrenaline spear attacks and go. You can drop command completely if you want and put the points into something else, you lose 8AL from the shield but CTT still lasts the full 20 seconds so you still have perma IAS.

This works well if you're on your own (pugs, RA, etc.) but if you can control the team build then physical damage wins... you can stack orders, barbs, mark of pain, etc. on all the physical damage dealers in the team. If no one is bringing those things you might as well bring your own damage booster.

Lishy · Dec 16, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I agree with the other posts.
If you want pew pew, run Asuran Scan with a paragon's infinite energy.

Personally, I'd use a stunning strike based build.
Make sure to go /w for SY on the side!

Tenebrae · Dec 16, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

#3 And pretty much thats it. Asuran Scan is better with fast reuse skills.

azurebane · Dec 21, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

hi there,
I have had good results with Conjure X in pvp formats like RA, the damage it adds to every attack is significant, and you maximize this by attacking faster. It is the same philosophy as the W/E with Conjure X but more consistent damage in general because the paragon doesn't care much about kiting, snaring, crippling, bodyblocking, etc.

I run 14 spear (12+1+1), 8 leadership (7+1), 8 fire magic, 9 command (8+1). This gives +13 damage to every attack from Conjure Flame, and I stack that with Soldier's Fury and Can't Touch This for permanent +33% IAS and +50% adrenaline gain. Pick four adrenaline spear attacks and go. You can drop command completely if you want and put the points into something else, you lose 8AL from the shield but CTT still lasts the full 20 seconds so you still have perma IAS.

This works well if you're on your own (pugs, RA, etc.) but if you can control the team build then physical damage wins... you can stack orders, barbs, mark of pain, etc. on all the physical damage dealers in the team. If no one is bringing those things you might as well bring your own damage booster.

Thank you all for your responses!

I wanted to address this post in particular, since it touches on something I've been struggling with recently: paras in pvp (particularly RA). I've had a lot of success running the Stunning Strike build on a warrior, but haven't found a way to recreate that on a para (the lack of Flail and Lion's Comfort really hurt). I like the concept of a conjure build in RA, but I have a few questions.

First and foremost, what adrenaline spear attacks do you gravitate toward when using it? I'd imagine Barbed Spear and Wild Strike (stance-campers seem to be an epidemic); what else seems prime?

How do you cope with blind and/or other conditions?

Do you run a self-heal, and if so, what do you find useful (Leader's Comfort seems underwhelming, but I could be mistaken)?

To end, I'd like to hop back to the OT briefly. For those of you who nay-say a conjure build in pve, the consensus seems to be due to attributes and orders (which I don't necessarily disagree with). I have two questions for you: what if you're running a non-orders team (spiritway, or any other cobbling that is better off without/can't support orders)? Second, how adamant is the consensus against losing the para's third attribute line to support a secondary profession's? Is the loss of 8 armor from the shield the main concern, or is it the loss of in-house skill effects (or both)? Is there a scenario in which it could be justified (if not in a conjure build, for something else)?

Again, thanks in advance for your input.

distilledwill · Dec 22, 2009, 12:22 PM // 12:22

You won't need a self heal, leave that to monks/other healers to do in your group - you have quite high armour so you should be ok. Plus it takes up a space on your bar.

Even when discarding the secondary attribute (comm/mot) Im not sure the damage you would gain from conjure would outweigh the disadvantages of not speccing more fully into leadership (for more energy, longer "TntF!" time, etc etc), having to use an elemental spear (bearing in mind that HM enemies have quite high elemental armour) instead of vampiric, losing - as you've mentioned - the 8AR from shield, and the ability to use useful skills such as "GftE!" (particularly good for renewing chants etc and in combination with Vicious Spear - which would be a good skill for a turret).

MasterSasori · Dec 28, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Conjures are just bad for para in pve. They are fun true, but overall, you shouldn't be wasting app points on it. If you want damage, OoP is better.

I've played with conjure on para in RA and it isn't that bad. It's fun depending on your build. Of course it was RA lol...

Khomet Si Netjer · Jan 11, 2010, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by azurebane

Thank you all for your responses!

I wanted to address this post in particular, since it touches on something I've been struggling with recently: paras in pvp (particularly RA). I've had a lot of success running the Stunning Strike build on a warrior, but haven't found a way to recreate that on a para (the lack of Flail and Lion's Comfort really hurt). I like the concept of a conjure build in RA, but I have a few questions.

First and foremost, what adrenaline spear attacks do you gravitate toward when using it? I'd imagine Barbed Spear and Wild Strike (stance-campers seem to be an epidemic); what else seems prime?

How do you cope with blind and/or other conditions?

Do you run a self-heal, and if so, what do you find useful (Leader's Comfort seems underwhelming, but I could be mistaken)?

To end, I'd like to hop back to the OT briefly. For those of you who nay-say a conjure build in pve, the consensus seems to be due to attributes and orders (which I don't necessarily disagree with). I have two questions for you: what if you're running a non-orders team (spiritway, or any other cobbling that is better off without/can't support orders)? Second, how adamant is the consensus against losing the para's third attribute line to support a secondary profession's? Is the loss of 8 armor from the shield the main concern, or is it the loss of in-house skill effects (or both)? Is there a scenario in which it could be justified (if not in a conjure build, for something else)?

Again, thanks in advance for your input.

hey azure,
usually i run barbed spear, spear of redemption, blazing spear, merciless spear. this gives bleeding, burning, deep wound and some condition removal. I found that self healing was not that useful or effective, it takes too long and really can't save you most of the time. I'd like to carry some form of Daze but Spear Swipe is not as effective with 8 leadership and the elite is taken by Soldier's Fury. Against the stance tanks I just switch targets for a little while. This build has enough dps to spike down WoH monks, you do enough damage to kill them while WoH is recharging especially if you can get a deep wound spike in there.

If you don't feel like running Conjure you can just go with Soldier's Fury, I was running the following for 25 straight wins in RA recently. Some of the opposing teams had two healers, we beat them anyway. 12 seconds of daze is a lifetime if you can't get it removed. Use +33% daze spear for best results. Again, no self healing, because paragon self heal is not that great IMO, I prefer to kill the enemy faster so I don't need as much healing.

spear 13 (11+1+1) command 11 (10+1) leadership 12 (11+1)
go for the eyes, spear swipe, barbed spear, blazing spear, merciless spear, can't touch this, soldier's fury, rez

Some people may question the use of barbed spear, it doesn't do any extra damage but consider what it does give you: cheap easy condition spreading, like the apply poison ranger. Barbed Spear gives about 20s of bleeding which is +120 damage from degen over that time. Either they soak all the damage or monks spend energy removing it. Either scenario is in your favor because re-applying it is free and almost instantaneous.