Curse

Tenebrae · Apr 27, 2010, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

LOL, what, you'll have your minions soak up damage for you? I don't use Discord, I find it inefficient compared to what I use. Think I'm only trying to troll, PM me and I can send you screenshots of my heroes and henchmen VQing areas in times faster then 2 players + 6 Discords can.

Well if you are using a Discord team and your minions dont soak up damage you are doing something very wrong.
About VQ times , those are cheap and big words pal. Are you sure you have the right average times of a 2+6 Discord team ? with micro`d skills ? hmmm. I dunno what did you use as discord but that spike is bloody faster , you can even have diff targets ( i actually do ) and kill foes in pairs in a matter of 4-5 sec average.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Back on topic, I have been highly confused as to why Discord teams are so popular, I've used one once, it was slow and if I hadn't been running my Imbagon build at the time, it would have been an epic phail.

There you go. To achieve Discordway max potential you need an AP caller ... when we are talking about 4-5 sec per foe , not having an AP caller can make that time about 8-12 sec and even more without micro'd skills.
Im not a big fan of Discord way but hell , is not so hard to use and before you throw shit on it , you should learn to play it at max efficiency ( like you obviously didnt ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Maybe it was just a fluke experience, and if so maybe someone can help me see why discord is so popular... but, my statement stands, that Discord without some sort of mitigation like that won't work, until I am proven otherwise

How about 16+ minions on front line to mitigate damage ?. Not a big fan of discord but im not a fan of SY! either. Some ppl here wont go even to a NM mission without SY! but the truth is that SY! its a "last resort" type of skill. If you are doing the things you are supposed to and use good builds according to the zone/mission you are in .......SY! is redundant.

Dusk_ · May 04, 2010, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

How about 16+ minions on front line to mitigate damage ?. Not a big fan of discord but im not a fan of SY! either. Some ppl here wont go even to a NM mission without SY! but the truth is that SY! its a "last resort" type of skill. If you are doing the things you are supposed to and use good builds according to the zone/mission you are in .......SY! is redundant.

The problem is that the most common builds are built with the expectation that the player build could be anything, including a pure offence build (like a Scythe Sin).

Newer players don't seem to realize this, and think they need things like SY! to survive, and thus end up overloading on defence.

If you're playing an actual Imbagon, or any build that can maintain SY!, you should be swapping out a lot of your other defencive skills for heavier offensive powers.

Myotheraccount · May 05, 2010, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Lawl.

No they aren't best imbas anymore. We got builds such as Spiritway and Discord now that have tons of defense already so what imba provies is widely redundant. What you need from the player now is to do many dommagz which imba has none of.

Essence Snow · May 05, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Lawl.

No they aren't best imbas anymore. We got builds such as Spiritway and Discord now that have tons of defense already so what imba provies is widely redundant. What you need from the player now is to do many dommagz which imba has none of.

LoL Wut? That's neither here nor there. You can't compare a singular build to a team build.

Myotheraccount · May 05, 2010, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

LoL Wut? That's neither here nor there. You can't compare a singular build to a team build.

Am I doing that? Lol

Essence Snow · May 05, 2010, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Lawl.

No they aren't best imbas anymore. We got builds such as Spiritway and Discord now that have tons of defense already so what imba provies is widely redundant. What you need from the player now is to do many dommagz which imba has none of.

Looked like it to me

NerfHerder · May 05, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Lawl.

No they aren't best imbas anymore. We got builds such as Spiritway and Discord now that have tons of defense already so what imba provies is widely redundant. What you need from the player now is to do many dommagz which imba has none of.

Imbagons have superior party wide protection abilities that put any single build in Spiritway, Discord, or even Prot Monks to shame. While at the same time doing a little bit of spike dmg.

Unless someone can point out a single build that can do the same thing and prove me wrong.

Tenebrae · May 05, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Imbagons have superior party wide protection abilities that put any single build in Spiritway, Discord, or even Prot Monks to shame. While at the same time doing a little bit of spike dmg.

Unless someone can point out a single build that can do the same thing and prove me wrong.

Well thats a player build that can use PvE skills . Those Xways are mostly used with H/H but yes , an imbagonbiatch provides all the defense you need and leaves you room to switch defensive skills to offensive ones.

Myotheraccount · May 05, 2010, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Imbagons have superior party wide protection abilities that put any single build in Spiritway, Discord, or even Prot Monks to shame. While at the same time doing a little bit of spike dmg.

Unless someone can point out a single build that can do the same thing and prove me wrong.

/facedesk

Please learn to read...

I was not comparing Hero builds to Imbagon.
What I been saying in my post was that because vast mojority of builds you are running with already provide more than enough defense, Imbagon's protection is simply not required. Look up redundancy in the dictionary.

You are better off dealing massive damage but unfortunately, like you have pointed out as well, Paragon deals little of it.

Thats why Imbas see less use atm.

Micro215 · May 05, 2010, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

You are better off dealing massive damage but unfortunately, like you have pointed out as well, Paragon deals little of it.

Paragon's are very capable in dealing decent damage. Most people tend to have the mindset of "I made the red bar go down all by myself" approach and you can't look at it like that when when working with a paragon. They're strength is more in supporting team damage as opposed to just damaging themselves. ("Go for the eyes", Anthem of Envy, "Find their weakness" to name a few) Coupled with the spear skills + conditions and you can create a great team offense even though the paragon's numbers might seem low.

Dusk_ · May 05, 2010, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

/facedesk

Please learn to read...

I was not comparing Hero builds to Imbagon.
What I been saying in my post was that because vast mojority of builds you are running with already provide more than enough defense, Imbagon's protection is simply not required. Look up redundancy in the dictionary.

You are better off dealing massive damage but unfortunately, like you have pointed out as well, Paragon deals little of it.

Thats why Imbas see less use atm.

If Imbagons are redundant with your Heroes' defencive skills, is it smarter to:

A) Make one build offensive, and three builds hybrid.
B) Make one build defencive, and three builds offensive.

Take your time.

NerfHerder · May 07, 2010, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

/facedesk

Please learn to read...

I was not comparing Hero builds to Imbagon.
What I been saying in my post was that because vast mojority of builds you are running with already provide more than enough defense, Imbagon's protection is simply not required. Look up redundancy in the dictionary.

You are better off dealing massive damage but unfortunately, like you have pointed out as well, Paragon deals little of it.

Thats why Imbas see less use atm.

I was responding to the OP....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacomos

Hi.
Im another dude complaining about paragon.

Well, as i keep hearing, imbagon is only paragon build worth playing in further pve.
The thing is, assassin can do imbagon job done AND call for discord kills.

[Assassin Promise] [You move like a dwarf] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice] [Critical Eye] [Critical Agility] [Way of the master] [critical defence -optional]

critical agility critical eye and way of the master always up

Hex, condition, For great justice, 4 spear hits and SY! is ready.
After killing mob [For great justice] is recharged.

Tried it and i have no problems with keeping SY! up all the time, most of the times its recharged in less than 4 seconds.

So imbasin>imbagon.

Also, imbasin dont have crappy -20 armor. It can do imba job with 70+15+25 = 110 armor + perma 75% block chance.

Myotheraccount · May 07, 2010, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I was responding to the OP....

Then why did you quote me in the same post? If you are responding to the OP, quote the OP. Kinda obvious. Lol.

Nubarus · May 25, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

My main character is a Paragon and I find it hilarious to read all the posts that they are redundant and useless, or not up to par with other professions that provide a "simular" role.

Not to mention that in every discussion that thiscrapway shit pops up as the mother of all hero teams.

Yes, on it's own a Paragon does not really deal that much dmg, but that's what a TEAM is for. There are plenty of classes and skills that can buff up the overal dmg to rediculous proportions, just that most of these self appointed "leet" players don't know how to build a good team on their own is more the real problem then anything else.

I have pretty much done everything there is to do with my beloved Paragon, only here and there some loose ends but that's more or less shifted to the background since I have 2 young children now that I intend to raise and spend time with then let em starve to death because I rather play an online game like some ppl on this planet.

Back on topic, my Paragon provides so much protection that 1 dedicated healer in the party is enough and with some nice hexes and weapon spells my Paragon deals enough dmg to matter.
So this leaves 1 extra slot for dedicated dmg.
I have done enough HM to know what goes around in this game and when it comes to speed I can pretty much say that I know I am ok in that department.

An area I like to Vanquish for faction points to name an example is Silent Surf, my own hero builds, my own Paragon build too btw, not that Imbagon build from PvX since I find that build not really doing what I seek in a Paragon as a whole, I VQ that area in around 30 mins, sometimes a few minutes more, sometimes a few minutes less.(Without a movement speed boost)
The only foes that pose some sort of threat there are the Kirin Mesmer mobs and require a little care when it comes to breaking aggro with em, other then them lot I can aggro multiple mobs without a problem and whipe the floor with em within 1 or 2 minutes, depending on how many mobs I face at a single time.

All I can say is ppl that say other classes can do a better job at it clearly have very little insight of the true potential of the Paragon class.

Now all those that feel I stepped on their manhood, feel free to flame away, I won't loose any sleep over it. Peace......

The Riven · May 25, 2010, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

If you're playing an actual Imbagon, or any build that can maintain SY!, you should be swapping out a lot of your other defencive skills for heavier offensive powers.

You're a paragon, your maintaining SY and hell why not TNTF? . Dont try to be uber-supah-hero offence, play to your strengths and buff the real offence for a more powerful, harder to kill team.
Fairly obvious really.

Stupid topic though.

chuckles79 · Sep 17, 2010, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I've been thinking about this, and I know what's going on here psychologically.
The biggest haters of paras are always sins, and vice versa.
Paras hate sins because SF was cheap, and has reduced the need for imbagons.
Sins hate paras, because Ursanway was cheap, and sins were the butt of pve.

With that out of the way, imbasins are humorous, but not the end of imbagons. I think offensively oriented players don't realize how nice protection is, especially when they are not the ones providing it. TntF and a spammable SY along with some dmg has it's place.
I appreciate the idea of imbasins, but Dagger Spammer paragons are in the same class (lots of dmg with some defense, and energy mgmt for the entire team)

Lastly, this is reason 1001 that paragons need some update tweaking. No need to overpower them, but an offensively based paragon shouldn't be a joke.