Curse

Drakar Shadowbane · Aug 26, 2011, 07:42 PM // 19:42

They could bump the energy given per person up to 2 while still keeping the limit of how much energy in leadership. This would double the energy return per person while still not haveing it an over powered primary attribute.

Mainly, the paragon needs skills reworked instead of a complete rework.

The way I see it, paragons are a hybrid of a single target damage dealer and an aoe party support class.

moosecat · Aug 28, 2011, 12:44 AM // 00:44

I'm still mad about not having a Kurz/Lux armor set for my Hall of Monuments. I also hate not having the ability to support "Allies" and being restricted to party only settings. I wish I would have had the patience to stick it out with a dervish, instead of a paragon. After playing a Dervish that can do EVERYTHING, and having to switch back to my paragon to work on the last 5 points for "Closer to the Stars" is just becoming painful.

Somehow I always find the redheaded step child of each game.

jewfrokid · Oct 08, 2011, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Perhaps we should not only look at the skills we are unimpressed with (I'm not saying that some skills don't need a tweak). But what about the inherent effect of leadership itself? For every two points you get 1energy return. Yet dervishes get a armor% bonus and less energy cost. Mesmers get reduced casting time and recharge. Ritualists increased spirit health and weapon duration. So why do Paragons, monks, necros, warriors all get 1 bonus.

Why not give the leadership attribute the ability to gain energy from shouts, aswell as each party member affected by a shout +1hp for every 2 ranks in leadership. Thats a possibility of 6hp per shout. I don't know it's only an idea. I think that adding in a balanced HP bonus would greatly enhance the paragons healing capabilities. Who knows maybe even 1hp per rank. I have not thought it entirely through but it was a rough idea.

KotCR · Oct 11, 2011, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Well Warriors only get one (and a mediocre one at that) because their is a tonne of incredibly good skills linked to it. The same logic, in theory, applies to the Paragon. Except the skills linked to it aren't so great anymore, but the inherant bonus itself is a very powerful one with the right set-up. It'd probably almost rival Expertise if it wasn't so gimped in non-optimum situations.

Necros and Monks only get the one because Anet considers them some of the most powerful primary attribute bonuses in the game. Especially the Necromancer. There's quite a few good skills linked to each though too.

chuckles79 · Oct 20, 2011, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I think the primary attribute is fine mechanically. One, maybe two spammable, adrenal shouts gives you almost an infinite well of energy.

it's not the attribute, it's the skills in it. Monks, necros, mesmers, and elementalists all have a crap sandwich of skills linked to their primary. However those provide nicer benefits to the player.

Lanier · Oct 21, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

yea, i agree that leadership is fine. The paragon's primary problem is their lack of good skills.

Quaker · Oct 21, 2011, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentz

I am extremely sick of the design of the Paragons.

Do any of you agree with me on these? Don't you think it's time for Paragons to recieve buff/Changes?

No. I think it's time you played a class you like. If you don't like Paragons, don't play one - there's certainly no "need" to play a Paragon.

Lanier · Oct 21, 2011, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

No. I think it's time you played a class you like. If you don't like Paragons, don't play one - there's certainly no "need" to play a Paragon.

The way PvE is designed, with titles being the end-game content and with most of them being character based, you can't really just say "go play a different prof".

il Priscilla il · Oct 21, 2011, 09:03 PM // 21:03

I don't believe the Paragon skills need ANY buffs, they need to be reworked. Do we not remember A/P Rt/P ? and buffing them would be out of the question. They are already too strong with multiple copies and layers of party wide buffs.

Vanway · Oct 22, 2011, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

The way PvE is designed, with titles being the end-game content and with most of them being character based, you can't really just say "go play a different prof".

if you've actually played your paragon for enough time to not want to start using a different character and you don't like it, my question is why have you played it so far?

Lanier · Oct 22, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanway

if you've actually played your paragon for enough time to not want to start using a different character and you don't like it, my question is why have you played it so far?

err, what? I never said I didn't want to play a paragon. There is a reason its my main char.

Axel Zinfandel · Oct 23, 2011, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

No. I think it's time you played a class you like. If you don't like Paragons, don't play one - there's certainly no "need" to play a Paragon.

The people who are sick of the design are not needless whiners who see no point to the profession, they're the people who see what amazingly FUN potential the paragon has, and wish it was executed better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jewfrokid

Perhaps we should not only look at the skills we are unimpressed with (I'm not saying that some skills don't need a tweak). But what about the inherent effect of leadership itself? For every two points you get 1energy return. Yet dervishes get a armor% bonus and less energy cost. Mesmers get reduced casting time and recharge. Ritualists increased spirit health and weapon duration. So why do Paragons, monks, necros, warriors all get 1 bonus.

It's not about who gets one or two bonuses, it's how effective and uniquely wanted that effect is. Leadership doesn't need another bonus to make if effective. Leadership could, theoretically, be tweaked and balanced a bit more. It's rather ridiculous in full, 8 man groups, and very weak in 4/6 man ones. However I stress that it is MUCH more about the skills than Leadership.

Paragons suffer from the same thing Dervishes do in that they have the least amount of skills. Necros and other base professions can get away with having a small handful of skills no one uses, but Paragons need those skills much more. They're issues are very much like the dervishes were in that there are way too many situation and IMS skills.

Quaker · Oct 23, 2011, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

The people who are sick of the design are not needless whiners who see no point to the profession, they're the people who see what amazingly FUN potential the paragon has, and wish it was executed better.

There's always someone who thinks any class could be better. Usually by screwing it up in some way.

Swingline · Oct 27, 2011, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

There's always someone who thinks any class could be better. Usually by screwing it up in some way.

Like anet hasn't screwed up a profession redesign themselves?...

...and the dervish did not need a redesign, just some minor skill updates

moosecat · Nov 01, 2011, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Personally I'm tired of the areas in the game where Leadership is capped at rank 8, IE 4 party areas. Sometimes I try to put it into certain perspectives to help me understand why this game would have such a restricting mechanic, simple riddles like the design layout of the Paragon class itself. Maybe David and Drew were huge fans of Charles Xavier, and feel like the X-Men comics didn't do him justice, maybe they felt that his role in the X-Men saga needed to be personified by a Heavily armored, Martially retarded, Cheerleader. Or Eric Flannum was a cheer leader in high school... is it weird that he strikes me as the male cheerleader type?

So we either NEED a Wheel chair attribute, or a Pom-poms weapon attribute.

Axel Zinfandel · Jan 11, 2012, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Paragons need interesting things like:

"The Power is Yours!"
4 Adrenaline
1s Recharge

For 3 seconds, all allies within earshot gain 0...1...1 Energy regeneration. Use this skill up to 3 times to gain an additional 0...1...1 Energy Regeneration each time.

Mechanics work like the existing skill: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/HYAHHHHH! , in that...
-if the +3 pip energy regen runs out, it is replaced with 2 pips, when that runs out, 1 pip...
-this act of being 'replaced' with the lower version triggers skills acting on shout end.
-1 second recharge to make the skill have a smaller window to continuously keep up, requiring more dedication. Alternatively, a 2 second duration with no recharge time.

Shaz · Feb 01, 2012, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I just wish they have some aoe damage capability in their direct damage attack skills, all other physical prof has some aoe capabilities. Their healing is pathetic when there is only a few present, but with a party full of paragons it's actually not that bad at pushing red bar up. Im running a 6para 1nec heroes build for most HM area using strictly para skill to heal except for one infuse health, necro does not heal at all, and it's pretty stable for anyplace with no anti shout. So I'd imagine it will be pretty hard to balance it to make one or two paragons heal better while not making a party full of paragons invincible.

Deadfalk · Feb 05, 2012, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Paragons do really need it, I agree; they are supposed to be a bard-type of class, but where's the sense in that if they can only do that in one single build out of a roughly 200 skills; the imbagon.

Spear wielding needs a bit of buffing, especially with a serious IAS and some mobbing ability.
Command (e.g. offensive support) needs to be buffed over the hills in pve to get on par and make it sensitive to use; also needs something to be best on a para.
Motivation (e.g. defensive support) needs even more buffing; they're supposed to be on par with other healers, inferiority isn't the way!
(PvP doubles obviously do need a buff, but not as big; we all know what happened.)
Leadership needs not so much a buff, more a change - a good paragon has the equal of Soul Reaping in their hands, but only on a serious investment; it needs to be more useful earlier on, and also have something implemented that makes motivation and command more or less prohibited to paragons (say, -4% cost/lv and increase shout costs by that amount).

Also nice would be :
* an option to wield pants/normal tops/less...exposing clothes (for so far I'm concerned just by taking the pants of another char and wield it like some festival clothing)
* more availability; Spears (and scythes, daggers, and rit wands/foci/staffs) dropped in reverse motion (in Factions and prophecies, more common).
* Less easy shutdown; ONE well-placed vocal minority fully stops paragons in their tracks in the current meta; seeing how, if paragons rise, everyone could take this this shutdown should be harder to land, like backfire (look at Well of Silence, that's more like it).

bleh · Feb 07, 2012, 12:15 AM // 00:15

PVE suggestions:
Nerf save yourself make it 50AL or something
Give Paragons a barrage/volley aoe style skill.
Less dependance on /W for ias and Adren (might be just me).

I like Paragon currently, the lack of variety gets boring though.

As a Primary They do everything Heal, speed buff, self-sustained ias, party wide heal and damage mitigation, condition removal, energy boost, fast ranged damage, tanking and more.
BUT as an individual every other class out does them 1v1 IMO.
The strength is in numbers,a 4 Paragon team is very effective.

It boils down to for me to: Make a paragon team of 2-4 or don't bother at all..(unless its P/W SY spam >_<.)

Im happy with the current state, if anything is to be done it should be a few skills at most, most of the mechanics are great.

PS: would love an armour update. ( I chose female cause a man wearing a skirt seemed weird.-modern day problems

)

Lanier · Feb 07, 2012, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleh

PVE suggestions:
Nerf save yourself make it 50AL or something

No

When the para update hits, SY needs to go die in a hole somewhere. Its current functionality is always either going to be overpowered or underpowered, so really it just needs a functionality change. Nerf it to 50 al and its still going to be a very popular skill that makes SYG and Watch yourself/shields up obsolete on player bars.