Curse

tektonik · Apr 21, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCP_Leader

if you want a warrior included in your build. Just use it as primary so you can wear their huge armour.

/me shakes head and goes to the corner crying

Rhazwyth · Apr 21, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

I think most of you are greatly underestimating the necro skills. And perhaps should take a look at the versitality and disruptance they can provide rather than put everything on damage or defence.

tektonik · Apr 21, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

tell me how rend is damage or defence?

I am not underestimating necro skills I am correctly estimating the usefullnes, or lack there of, of a primary necro to be able to successfuly be able to use his skills better than a x/nec

lhurgrokoyv · Apr 21, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

ok dude if ur gonna pvp NEVER use necro primary (first hand experience) you never get to the max pvp potential of other classes (since you only got 2 decent pvp attributes, curse and blood) soul reaping is only good when a fight's almost over, so its completely useless in pvp and a lotta death spells require a corpse/minion which you have a low chance of getting in a pvp where enemies are ressurected pretty fast. necro secondary is manageable at pvp but it all depends on how your primary is built

Greentongue · Apr 21, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lhurgrokoyv

... soul reaping is only good when a fight's almost over, so its completely useless in pvp ...

Actually as recastable Nature Rituals die, you get Soul Reaping from them.

With that energy you can cast Barbs to add with Winnowing or maybe Mark of Pain.
Barbs [10,2,30] (Hex Spell) For 30 seconds, target foe takes 1..8 damage when hit by physical damage.

Mark of Pain [10,2,30] (Hex Spell) For 30 seconds, whenever target foe suffers physical damage, Mark of Pain deals 10..34 shadow damage to adjacent enemies.

Instead you could use the energy for Vampiric Gaze and Shadow Strike.
Vampiric Gaze [10,1,5] (Spell) Steal 18..52 Health from target foe.

Shadow Strike [10,2,8] (Spell) Target foe takes 12..41 shadow damage. If that foe's Health is above 50%, you also steal 12..41 Health.

Aranarth · Apr 21, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Green, did you suggest Oath Shot on a N/R? Isn't expertise primary only?

Am I missing something, or does suggesting the use of a 50% chance to fail skill without even owning the attribute it's based on make no sense?

Greentongue · Apr 22, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

I will, however, point out that all evidence to the contrary, Oath Shot is linked to Marksmanship. Not Expertise. The game says Expertise, it's listed under expertise, it says "Miss chance with Expertise less than x" but it's Marksmanship. Means you don't have to be a primary Ranger. Build accordingly.

Taking the word of someone who should know, Markmanship is available as a secondary.

Genosha · Apr 22, 2005, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Ne/Me
I'v played This since my first BWE and have done the following:
PvE, PvE, Solo.

What I have found out is that The 2 compliment each other.

Look at ME first:
I can weaken, hurt, even cripple someone.
PvP - not the strongest(until matched with necro)
PvE - Defenitly hold my own..
Solo - I can play long term with No problems.
(Note: It is best with Necro, because the other combs seem to not hold the power that a necro has. Nor do the spells enhance each other.)

Now look at NE:
I can hurt, take life, Damage, & Heal with the best, short of the monk for healing which it was meant to do....
PvP - High team support, Can hold it's own in casting against all others.(Note: Before you say Monk maybe you should look at the damage ratio that a Necro can do.)
PvE Solo - In PvE / Solo You are your own support. I have gone to the end of the map and back with my NE/ME.( Without depending on the MO healing over and over again. Even went Drake hunting that was fun.)

NE/ME:
PvP - With the right combo you can take down a warrior. I know of 1 spells that slows, 2 that directly attacks, and 3 that sucks the life out of you. Your dead.(Note: The 3 that sucks the life, can be considered direct attacks if you want to go there or you can't see beyond your nose.)
PvE - This combo can take a licking and still get a beating and do excellent.
Solo - Like PvE but you depend on you own skills with you character.

Before anyone says something sucks, Look at what that character is designed to do. Each Character has its' strengths and weaknesses NE/ME is one of the more dangerous Combos, so don't be fooled. If you have ever on a BWE played with a NE/ME you know what they are capable of and want them on your team....(note: I didn't mention the Fiends & Monions for reasons. Why spoil it. Someone would just say see you need help. Uh Huh I don't use either,)

Guild Wars was designed with the intent that all the characters are about equal. This game also allows you to mix and match for a reason.(Note: What works best for 1 may not work best for another,)

Quote:

Quick story: I gave a friend a BWE Key and told him to try 1 of the following Mo, Wa, Ra, and then try a Ne, Me, El. He did and told me that Mo, Wa, Ra, were strait foward playing characters, While the Ne, Me, El, were more mental and needed more creative addaptions & remebering for spells. Guess what he played by just looking? Wa & Me! Funny thing is he like the Me.

walder · Apr 22, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

The strategy that requires you to bring a pet along and let it die to get your first minions is still flawed. It allows you to develop an army in PvP, but your pet will be doing so little that it will most likely be ignored, its only chance to die is if it gets caught in Ele AoE spells. Also, while your busy raising an army, there's an actual battle going on. Now a few minutes into the the battle you have a nice sized minion army. Congratulations, now your facing an 8v1 ownage situation where your army won't be able to do anything to protect you. Even if this extreme situation is never reached, there is no way that your team wouldn't have been better helped by another Monk or another damage dealer. Minion masters in PvP shouldn't be looked at as whether its possible or not, but whether its worth it or not. While it is possible, its definitely not worth it.

Rhazwyth · Apr 22, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

One can only hope that they will give the ability to buy components that serve as a sacrifice instead of using actual corpses. Since the casting does require energy you wont be able to amass a huge army in no time.

PawnBoy · Apr 22, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Nope, buying components would mean that people who farm money, and gather these "sacrifices" would have an advantage over those who don't. You'd also have the advantage of being able to amass an army at whatever time you please, you could ditch skills such as verata's sacrifice in turn for one that may return energy and then amassing an army would be very quick indeed. Besides...I don't wanna carry any dead sheep around in my bags...

walder · Apr 22, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krileon Reborn

Charmed animals fight even after death so generally a large group of people do actually kill the pet first. It's such an easy kill so it's not a big hastle and yes i've seen it plenty of times, but what they don't realise is that pet has death nova on him and a free corpse to summon a pet for. OR you could even get one of the corpse explosion skills to cause even more damage. Death Nova does over 160 damage with it's added poison effect with Death at 16. Now if you ask me thats a lot of damage in 1 bang. With charm animal death thats 160 damage. Now use animate bone minions (they die quickly, but you get 2 per summon) thats another 160+160 damage. The math? 160+160+160=480 AE damage in just a few seconds. Death nova has no recast and the pets surely will die quickly. They'll even charge at the enemy. It's like a suicide bomber. So don't tell me it won't work, because i've dropped up to 3 people in 1 bang before on top of my other team members attacking. Next time yas bash on necros actually play the class and think of a strategie. I'm a Death Necro and Beast Ranger mix with necro as my primary. I have no issues in pvp or pve. Both I do my 100% effort in. Theres a way for everything.. the key is to finding that way.

This isn't efficient. Lets assume your pet can die in 2 hits and that it only takes 2 seconds to get into battle after you are in range to attack. Thats 4 seconds to get one corpse. Then you have close to 4 seconds casting time to raise your minions. We are up to 8 seconds and only 160 damage. Then your minions run around for a while with Death Nova, lets say another 2 hits to die, which is roughly 2 seconds. 10 seconds and only 160 damage. Then your minions die giving you 10 seconds and 480 damage, however that first 160 was much earlier and can be easily negated by any decent healer because it takes so long for you to get going. So really its 320 burst damage, not bad at all. However, now your dormant again for at least 10 seconds (recharge of minion skills is 5 seconds and you have 2 corpses). 20 seconds and 480 overall damage, meh. In 20 seconds a monk can heal for way more than 480 damage, and any class even smiting monk can do more damage than that. A Warrior using no skills at all has a better DPS. You can find a way to use a minion master in combat but it is just bad no matter what you do.

walder · Apr 23, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

No one said that a minion master will be taking on an entire team. What I said was the time needed to develop a decent army isn't efficient. If you weren't a minion master and decided to be another Warrior or Healer or Nuker you would help your team out a lot more than being a minion master.

Deathly Swarm is crap by the way. If you take into effect the AL of your target the damage is pretty pitiful.

Anyway, I never said that the cast time was 8 seconds, read what I wrote and you will find that I was computing a rather advanced mathematical concept called addition. I know, I know, I wouldn't even worry about it if I were you. Besides that, the cast time is actually 3.75 seconds because of the aftercast on all spells.

1x Bone Minions = 3.75
3x Death Nova = 8.25

For your 480 damage at best will take you 12 seconds. This is not including the time needed for your pet to run into battle attract someones attention and get killed. It also doesn't include the time needed for your minions to do the same. Realistically this build requires close to 20 seconds to do 480 damage, which isn't good.

As far as Smiting goes, how about Balthazar's Aura + Symbol of Wrath. In 10 seconds with smiting only at level 12 thats 355 damage. Throw in Bane Signet, Banish, Smite and you have just outdone the minion master damage. Boost Smiting up to 16 to have it be equal to your Death Magic calculations and its not even a contest, and done in close to half the time.

walder · Apr 23, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krileon Reborn

Believe what you will. I hammer that strat in within 10 seconds. Aftercast.. well I guess that might be a factor if only it existed. I've never had aftercast times. When making my times I use a watch you see it tells by the second and well no aftercast.. hmm.. interesting.. oh well.. forget it.. argueing with you is pointless.. as i said before your a hot head and are under the impression your alwasy right.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ight=animation

Happy now?

Just because your wrong doesn't make me a "hot head."

And just because you "have done it" in Tombs or Arena doesn't make minions a viable strategy for competitive GvG.

Scaphism · Apr 23, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Discuss, do not flame, or the thread closes.

Krileon Reborn · Apr 23, 2005, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I agree with Scaphism. Like I said before Walder believe what you will, but I voiced my opinion and my thoughts on the matter and i'm not going to argue pointlessly with you about the matter. End of discussion, but please stop shooting down peoples ideas. It's just freaken depressing man.. shesh..

Mister Furious · Apr 23, 2005, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Isn't Dark Pact one of the best nukes in the game in terms of damage? Over 40 points of unreduced damage every two seconds for only 5 energy sounds pretty appealing to me. Sure, you take damage, too, but there's plenty of necro abilities to compensate for that. Plus, you can add dark aura to it if you wish.

There were several reasons why I wanted to play a necro nuker over an elementalist. One of the reasons was because their damage isn't reduced by armor. Another is that necros are a lower priority target than elementalists. The third is that they look cooler. And fourth, their single target damage seemed to be comparable in terms of energy/damage effeciency. Energy storage is definitly better than Soul Reaping, but the necro spells are much cheaper in cost than the elementalist spells, so I wasn't worried about it.

I was planning on playing a necro and basing a build around dark pact, using mesmer for energy draining, but if necros suck that bad then maybe I'll go back to reading about Elementalists. I would just say screw it and play what I want, but this is a team game and if no one wants a necro on their team then I won't be happy. I love the Elementalists armors, too, just not as much as the necros.

Apr 23, 2005, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Primary Necromancers suck. End of argument.

Nash · Apr 23, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

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