Curse

Ganon · Dec 17, 2005, 12:06 PM // 12:06

I've been playing GW since the second week that it came out, but its been only recently that I really took an interest in the Necromancer class. I was fortunate enough to get so used to using SS before it became a big thing, that I got in on the ground floor of the 2 man farming build used to get ectos from the UW. Doing this I met several monks that to this day I still do runs with. They are all extremely good 55 monks, know what not to do, and are all willing to split ectos right down the middle. However, those monks are controlled by people and those people do have lives outside of GW. This being the case they aren't always on. Which means that I have to resort to finding a random monk again at ToA.

Many of you maybe saying..."Thats not a big problem, there are alot of 55 monks out there." This comment brings me to the topic I would like to talk about. Scammers. Ever since the solo monk build has gotten popular it has become a gangsta's paradise for jackasses who lie to you about splitting ectos at "the end of the run" only to run off with the 3 ectos they got and leaving you with none. I'm not saying that this has happened with monks only and is not present in the necro ranks as well, but to be honest I hear very few incidents referring to bad necros as opposed to incidents involving bad monks.

The main reason that I'm making this post is mostly to vent my frustrations over some of the morons that play this game. My personal favorite incident occurred tonight actually (Saturday December 17, 6:50 EST). So this guy and I are messing around in the UW. Everything is going good, and after the first two runs we each get one ecto. So far we haven't had a need to split anything as the drops are working in favor of our splitting. On our 3rd run we come to the 3rd to last group of smites in the frozen mountain area. The smites drop an ecto that is supposed to be my second one. Its at this point that the monk says "Sry but I need the ecto." This was a red flag for me. I knew that he was gonna take off any second with the ecto. So I said that if he didn't give me it I was just gonna sit down and let him handle it which is exactly what I did. Normally most scammers having exposed themselves would have just left the game and gone back to ToA to find another gamer to f*** with. However, I was not prepared to deal with the lengths to which this guy would go.

Seeing that I was not going to help him he started to steer the smites to me. This smite chase lasted for a good while before I finally said "F*** you man!" and left the game myself. This just added salt to my injuries as I had been the one to pay for the goddamn run. Call me irrational, but the last time I checked agreements were supposed to be upheld. What happened to the days when gamers that were playing together shared what they found? I mean you may all say that its just an ecto, but to me thats FoW armor. Armor that I am trying to save up for. Armor that I will not be able to get if scammers like this one keep impeding my progress. Normally I wouldn't care, but since ectos are so goddamn rare it pisses me off the lengths to which some people will go just to keep one extra ecto.

Anyway I'll get down off my soapbox, and open up the floor to any other comments.

Daijdjan · Dec 17, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

My advice: dont share. Make it clear before the trip that everyone gets his drops and dont has to share. When your partner doesnt want that, ok, there are others in the need of a partner for 2-man-UW-Farming. If you do more runs with the same person, the drops will even out between the two of you. And when one gets more ectos than the other, bad luck, take it like a man.

The Yoink · Dec 17, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

wow, that's rough.... I totally agree that if he made an agreement, he should have stuck to it.. I have a 55-hp monk-build, and have used it to spy on the rancid underbelly of the 55-hp monk world.. Here are some things I've learned:

1.) Broke 55-hp monks WILL try to front as legitimate healers/protection monks in order to hop in a FoW or UW group free of charge. They'll go to great lengths to do this, including wearing non-tat armor around ToA (as a tattooed monk in ToA usually screams "55", and they don't want to blow their cover.. not just yet). They'll also, upon quandary of their skillbar, claim to be packing a bag full o' delicious healing or prot spells (which, of course, isn't the case.... in fact, in moments of desperation a 55'er will resort to making-up interesting-sounding spells, such as "Healing Boon" or "Divine Rebirth"). If they feel things aren't going in their direction, they'll simply emote-up a Deer for yah (which they tagged with their IWAY warrior) to impress your socks off.

2.) Upon gaining your trust and a spot on your team, they'll go off and hide in an obscure part of ToA (you know.. that little dip that's kinda between stuff where there's nothin' to access) and quietly change back into their solo armor, meanwhile sweating nervously at the thought of being found-out. If one of your party members (lets say, a necro) happens upon them before you enter your subterranean destination and asks them what they think they're doing (because necros are no dumbies), the 55'er will claim to "just be switching back to their in-town armor" because the group is "taking too long" and they're "getting bored".. upon further questioning, they'll call your poor necro a "n00b", flash a deer emote, then log-out and log-in to another account where they can grab their other 55'er to try the process all over again

3.) Once inside, you'll begin to notice that something isn't right. The 55'er is staying JUST outside the aggro circle of the enemies, occasionally wanding, and seems to have too-much time on their hands. Another sign of a camouflaged 55'er is when your only other monk (the legit one) seems to be on the verge of falling over and is making strange gargling noises (presumably choking and drowning on their own sweat).

4.) Finally, you reveal the 55'er for what he is to the rest of your group (WARNING: this can cause swearing, general disorientation recognizable as players wandering around in circles..speechless, and a flood of /sigh and /fistshake emotes) and the 55'er makes his/her move. He tosses on his/her various auras, preps his/her "Cities of Ascalon" quest item, and charges headfirst into the nearest group of enemies that use only physical attacks or skills that are manageable for a 55'er. Don't bother flaming/yelling/cursing/whispering them, as they won't usually respond.. if they DO respond it will contain one or more of the following: a foreign language, a made-up language, and/or the word "n00b." So a fairly loquacious 55'er will say something like, "shuuut tafugg op u n00b gato." He's banking on the resulting confusion/frustration to cause the rest of the party to leave, therefore leaving all remaining resources for him to pick-up at his leisure. If people DON'T leave, he'll/she'll simply trail behind the group and follow their previous strategy of occasionally wanding a near-dead monster. If your party won't leave, yet refuses to continue on until the 55'er leaves or dies, they'll simply start emoting yawns (with the occasional deer) until the group gets moving or leaves (after all, THEY know that your time is more valuable than theirs').

ah, but seriously.. not all 55'ers are bad, just any with names like Ddde Ffg.. but back to topic the dishonestly and/or ineptitude of some players has forced me into the lonely world of solo-farming.. and I love it

Tyrent Frath · Dec 17, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

actually gato IS a word ^_^

I'm a 55 monk, and I only split ectos evenly with guildies, aside from that, I makeit very clear we each get our drops.

Vexed Arcanist · Dec 17, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Your title is wrong. The problem isn't monks, or 55 monks, or invinci-monks, or imonks. The problem is people. The internet. Anonymity.

There are good people that play and bad people that play and people that play and can be bad because they are anonymous, the electronic curtain veils their identity. They can behave in all the bad, immoral ways they could only dream of getting away with in real life.

Imonk is a strong build even after all the changes to shake it up. d00ds will always be drawn to what is perceived as powerful.

It is hard enough to rely on people in the real world, it is virtually impractical on the internet.

TGgold · Dec 17, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Yeah, we had a healer in our FoW group this morning who *insisted* he was a healer. But, after seeing how regen affected his life bar, and how he died almost always in about 2 seconds, and how it NEVER effected the healing output of me (boon prot) and a healing monk, we could piece two and two together.

Also, the 55-ers seem to always be selling things...even when you're on the map, then get mad when people tell them to be quiet. Seriously, we don't want the req9 UNID Chaos Axe.

The Yoink · Dec 17, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrent Frath

actually gato IS a word ^_^

I'm a 55 monk, and I only split ectos evenly with guildies, aside from that, I makeit very clear we each get our drops.

*cough* if you'll re-direct your attention to my impossibly-long rant, you'll see that I DID include "foreign language" as part of their evil devices... pero gracias

Undead Preacher · Dec 17, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Another thing I ABSOLUTELY hate is when u ask for an experienced 55hp and u "think" u find one until they die on their first hit.... people make the build and say they are experienced, get down there and die in 3 seconds wasting your gold if u paid for run or at least half of it.... also several monks like u said refuse to split ectos unless its us that gets the first 2 drops... i actually had some bad scammers try to mess with me..... sucks bad!

The Son Of Morgoth · Dec 17, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

LOl after reading this thread i feel so much better about myself and my 55 hp monk

. Ironically i have problems finding good SS Echo Necros to team with since most of them dont bring suffering, bring stupid skills and i even met one that forgot spiteful spirit 0_o.

If i die due to it being my own fault i usually offer to pay for the next run since i know its my fault. If my necro dies by gettin too cloose and drawing away agro which i cant aggro back fast enough i expect him to pay for the next run

well if any of u wanna dual uw u can contact me

lord_shar · Dec 17, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

My suggestions:

1) Ask if you're splitting ecto's at the start of the run. If they don't answer, I assume that means "no." If you get the 1st two ecto, then the monk asks for a 50/50 split, tell him that he refused to agreed on splitting at the start. If the monk leaves as a result of that answer, that's ok, you got your 2 ectos and they got zilch.

2) Don't split ecto's until all runs are completed with the given partner.

I went on one run where I got all 3 ectos. Even though we made no 50/50 split agreements, I gladly gave my partner 1 of the ectos. Yesterday, another monk got 2 ecto's. Even though we did agree to split 50/50, and I asked him about it, I got no reply, so I left without complaining. If you farm UW enough, you will get ecto regardless of the (bad) luck factor.

Hiryu · Dec 18, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

There's a reason why the entire drop system was put in place. I usually don't get lucky and my partner gets all the drops, but oh well, that's life.

If you want to split down the middle, you'll have to find a trustworthy monk. PM me for the win!

kekeehehehehekekeke.....

Ganon · Dec 18, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Ok I think that before this discussion goes any further I have to make a few things clear...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daijdjan
My advice: dont share. Make it clear before the trip that everyone gets his drops and dont has to share.

First off, I do make it very clear that I want to split the ecto drops. Its the first question that I ask. In my story the monk that I was with said yes to splitting ectos. Then in the middle of the run he decided that he wouldn't do it. That was my whole message on sticking to agreements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexed Arcanist
Your title is wrong. The problem isn't monks, or 55 monks, or invinci-monks, or imonks. The problem is people. The internet. Anonymity.

As I said in my original post, this is not a problem that is isolated to just monks. I know that it happens with just about any character class and it depends solely on the situation. The Yoink mentioned that scamming occurs with FoW groups which I have to say I wasn't aware. Still there are other scammers in this game as is evident by the number of runners that take the money of other people and then do not do the run. Or sellers who take advantage of noobs by managing to get the unfortunate bastard to give them the money first. Perhaps you are right about it being anonymity that is the problem, Vexed. However, that is a not valid excuse for the actions taken by these people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar
2) Don't split ecto's until all runs are completed with the given partner.

I'll be very blunt in saying that this strategy is good, but it does have its fair share of caveats. Considering that we are talking about scammers, if the scammer gets 3 ectos and the other person none then after the runs the scammer will leave with the 3 ectos. Leaving the unfortunate necro (or monk as the case maybe) out some gold and no ectos to his/her credit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Preacher
also several monks like u said refuse to split ectos unless its us that gets the first 2 drops...

I agree Preacher, this is a tendancy that I have seen in some monks as well. Though I'm generally a nice guy and I usually share with them. Then if the position is reversed I've had little problems getting the person to split ectos with me. However, there has been, what I can only describe as a "wave" of scammers all trying to cash in on the UW craze. This "wave" seems to have crested recently with the number of dishonest players only growing. I know that that statement maybe a bit too melodramatic but I know that I've gotten scammed twice in 1 week recently. Which as a veteran player, I hadn't thought possible.

lord_shar · Dec 18, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Greed is an unfortunate part of human nature, especially when wrongdoings are protected by internet anonymity.

One way to weed out the scammers is to build up a friend's list of reliable 55-monks who don't have problems with 50/50 splits. This way, you minimize your exposure to PUG-unknowns.

I maximize my ecto gains by simply doing as many fast UW smite runs as possible. If I run into a scammer who doesn't split ecto at the end when agreed upon, then I just don't group with them again. Scammers are mearly a speed-bump in the fast lane of ecto-farming, so I treat them accordingly (they won't benefit from my skills again). I won't fuss over the loss of 1-2 ecto (which is usually the difference in splits), especially since I tend to get the greater ecto count each run. Everything balances out long term.

LaserLight · Dec 18, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Hm hm...if it helps, you can think of it like this: the scammers, who think they're being so 1337 clever, are virtually always unskilled idiots. That's why they have to resort to preying on people's sense of honor. Thus, when/if they manage to scam themselves into whatever their end goal is, they'll suck too much to take advantage of the fruits of their perverse labor, and will be miserable.

After all, it's a whole lot more work to scam hundreds of people out of enough supplies for your end-game armor and materials than it is to just plow through and earn them honestly. Hm hm, sucks to lose one or two of your farming runs, but the scammers have to lose well over half of theirs, and they aren't skilled enough to do it themselves if they tried :-P

And that is why I pity those too unintelligent to realize how disadvantaegous dishonesty is, instead of being getting all flamey wrathful vengeance on their asses XP

Maiyn · Dec 20, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Yeah, I dunno. I don't do two-man runs with anyone but my fiance, but we've never shared drops. Drops are random and that's just how it is I guess.

Yet, if someone did make that agreement, I think they should definitely uphold it :/

Praetor · Dec 20, 2005, 08:46 AM // 08:46

The simple solution to all this "scam" issues,
Play only with the ppl you trust (most commonly your guildmates).

Sure you can try to build a list of 55 or SS players, but that already involves risk on your part. If you don't have a guildmate to play with, 1 of 3 things, 1 your guild is mostly inactive since they do have better things to do, 2 your guild does play more pvp like they should be, or 3 you are your own guild.

Or, you can simple say what drops is what drops. No splitting, no loss of honor or such. Pure luck (or possibly haxing).

Klmpee · Dec 21, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

this is sad to hear.. ive had a necromancer do this to me... i dont think ill do any more runs with random necromancers because of it... but in my case. i always share ectos.. because i mean.. it feels right..

Ubernoob · Dec 22, 2005, 01:05 AM // 01:05

The same thing has happened to me... well sort of... I was in UW with my SS necro and a random 55 monk doing smites when an ecto dropped for me! Upon seeing this the monk then ran headfirst at me and all the smites aggroed onto me luckly I got out of the way in time and manged to nab the Ecto before diying. As soon as I had died the monk left! I asked my guildmates about it and they said that its happened before the guild that this monk was in is known for scamming (apparently the monk was going to kill me and wait till I left so they could grab the ecto!) anyway I thought it was really stupid how far some people go for a little cash...

Gwenhywar · Dec 22, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

I don't really understand the whole splitting ectos thing, the game is already doing it for you - just take whatever loot you each get and its done. Sometimes you'll get more ectos, sometimes the other guy will get more, but if you farm often, it will even out.

You guys are creating problems for yourselves by trying to force others into something that people are simply not used to in this game - splitting loot.

I agree that it's lame to not follow your agreement if you agreed to it, but I think if you don't want to get scammed, simply don't enter into silly agreements like that. Unless you're farming with a friend you trust.