Curse

Worthington · Mar 12, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I've been using my Necro a lot lately and since my guildies are missing an orders necro it's usually me (New Tombs).

I generally go /Mo for things like heal area (help out the MM) and some solid self heals to get around the sacc. I've been looking at Arcane Echo though and wondering if that wouldn't be a better option.

At 300 life each Order costs me 51 health that either myself of the monk has to heal. I would prefer it to be me but sometimes the monk beats me to it. With AE it's one Order every 25 seconds. With a 5 sec recast that 4 orders I won't have to cast (5-1). 4x51.. or 200 health that doesn't need to be healed. At that small rate something like V. Gaze or Unholy should be more then enough for a self heal. That also frees up my time from mad spamming to do something at least slightly useful (B. rit the monk, etc). My real concern is the loss of a hard rez but....

Now that OotV and OoP don't stack one Echoed OotV should do the trick.

Thought from the more exp Orders Necros here?

General Typhus · Mar 12, 2006, 01:07 AM // 01:07

OoP stacks if you use OotV first, or so I am under the impression of it doing so.

I se no reason to echo OotV when it recharges faster then it lasts. Stay monk secondary for heal area and if your energy permits, heal party.

thelessa · Mar 12, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Typhus

OoP stacks if you use OotV first, or so I am under the impression of it doing so.

I se no reason to echo OotV when it recharges faster then it lasts. Stay monk secondary for heal area and if your energy permits, heal party.

Does anyone know for sure that they stack, if OoV is cast first then OoP? For the time being I have been just using one or the other and have considered just using OoP and putting in BiP instead to help monk w/o having to get into touching distance.

Worthington · Mar 12, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

I asked my Rangers if it looked like it was stacking and thought not. With OotV first, then pain

thelessa · Mar 12, 2006, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Oh well, I guess I will try maybe plan B and take BiP instead of OoV.

kaldak · Mar 12, 2006, 02:21 AM // 02:21

I was also under the impression the OotV wont work at any point when another necro enchantment is up, but I dont know for sure.

I've actually been wondering a bit why Orders necros still bring both spells...

thelessa · Mar 12, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

I liked to use the OoV mostly because it was healing the rangers. But I was using OoP today and it seemed like they were doing more dmg. with it and the rangers were stil rather healthy. Also I was able to keep it up almost all the time, OoP.

Turbobusa · Mar 14, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

hm, In french traduction, it says "he steels 17 max" or something like this.
Bad traduction or reality?

Btw, BiP is a good choice as Ootv takes 5 secs to recharge & 2 more to cast.

Cherno · Mar 14, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

I have been thinking about this a lot too. I have decided to only bring OotV instead of both orders anymore.

With a 20% enchant mod on a staff you will only have one second of downtime between being able to recast OotV and when it runs out.

Because I am only taking 1 order, Blood renewal seems like more of an annoyance than anything. I think I am going to start binging mending to negate the saccing effects. Sould reaping should sufficiently supplement the missing energy from the one pip.

I think heal area is a bad idea, even if you think it helps the MM. If you are that close to use it, then you are too close. Have a ranger bring PS instead. If you are out of battle, they can take care of the minions themselves.

Echo isn't really necessary for the order(s) so I don't see why you should go anything but monk. Being a monk secondary is very useful to be able to rebirth and pull rangers to the back line out of danger. Also you can supplement heal. I have on a number of ocassions been forced to go on a Heal Party spam when the monk get's low on energy or just can't keep up with the demand. Because I get soul reaping, I can cast the expensive heal party more and let them deal with accute heals.

Carinae · Mar 14, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

You don't really need healing as an Orders necro. Blood Renewal should completely take care of you.

Hit: BR -> Order1 -> Order2 -> Order1 -> Order2 -> BR ......

You should be wayyyy in the back out of aggro range.

Since you are in the back, a trick some Orders necs use is double or triple Superior runes. This reduces the total amount of hp you sacrifice....but BR (and healing) are not percent based, so they become more effificent.

/mo or /me should work. Both have advantages.

Cherno · Mar 14, 2006, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

You don't really need healing as an Orders necro. Blood Renewal should completely take care of you.

Hit: BR -> Order1 -> Order2 -> Order1 -> Order2 -> BR ......

You should be wayyyy in the back out of aggro range.

Since you are in the back, a trick some Orders necs use is double or triple Superior runes. This reduces the total amount of hp you sacrifice....but BR (and healing) are not percent based, so they become more effificent.

/mo or /me should work. Both have advantages.

Double orders is somewhat redundant and wasteful these days since the change. If both orders are doing the same amount of dmg/life stealing and both charge at the same rate, why not just take one and spam it? This will also reduce your need for blood renewal.

Staying way back out of agro range, while effective, sucks. You don't usually qualify for drops, you don't get experience and you are lucky if you gain soul reaping. You can be close but not too close and be sucessful. Just be sure to watch the radar while you spam so that you can move back in case some break through.

Carinae · Mar 14, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Well, I wrote it that way because you could have Order1=Order2. In other words, you're just spamming one of the Order spells, but you can still get off 4 Orders per BR.

And yea, I didn't mean across the map. You HAVE to be within half of the radar for Orders to work. But, still stay well outside the aggro bubble.

If you're close enough to get XP, you are qualifying for drops.

thelessa · Mar 14, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I had a very nice run the other day. Just brought OoP and BiP and spammed OoP, and BiP when ever the monk was in need of power, and he kept the party healed up. Just have to watch the health

striderkaaru · Mar 14, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Well, I wrote it that way because you could have Order1=Order2. In other words, you're just spamming one of the Order spells, but you can still get off 4 Orders per BR.

br lasts 10 seconds. order lasts 5. why are you spamming 4 orders per br?

Carinae · Mar 14, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

They only last 3 seconds effectively. 5 second duration, 2 second cast. So to keep up Orders all the time, you have to recast every 3 seconds, minimum. A 20% enchants helps that, but it also adds 2 seconds to BR.

Still, maybe it would be better to do 3 Orders then a BR.

sigried · Mar 14, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Man i was wondering why they prefer the orders necro, i really like the idea od usin the ss along with arcane echo to have ss i have seen the damage i deal and it so cool actually enemies dies so soon you see. 43 base damaga for all sorounding areas its is so cool but the barage pet team always like the orders intead of ss.

I went with a Barage pet team as an ss and you no how many casualties we had during the entire tombs 1 only once.

I was so trying the ordes necro and it so sucks to much.

Another thing is that you dont get time to use any other abilitis since the order of vampire only lasts 5 sec. need to be recasting

Cherno · Mar 14, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

The reason that SS isn't as effective down there is because of fingers of chaos. If a creature in Fingers stance hits you it will remove a necro hex from themselves. Order are enchants and globally effect your team. The orders necro can stand far back out of any harm and spam the order to help the team.

As for the recasting of orders, that's the point. You are there to spam that as much as possible. It keeps the team healed to an extent, and helps to kill the enemy quicker.

As for you going as an SS and only having one death, so what. I have seen well balanced teams go down and never die, I have seen B/P teams at near wipout 5-6 times through the duration of the run. It all depends on skill and luck. No one is saying Orders is the only thing, it is just a nice compliment to the build.

then emaris says · Mar 14, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Has anyone tried going with a Mo/Me and casting JIs on the rangers? o_O Along with some backup heals too.

Worthington · Mar 15, 2006, 03:00 PM // 15:00

I've stayed with the monk secondary pretty much just to add a little health to the team. BP groups only have one monk so if something happens (like the increased err 7s going around) it's nice to have a back line caster with some heal spells.

Thats pretty much what I do Carinae, is alternate which order is up. Pain, Vampire, pain, vampire, etc. I use a 20% enchant wrapping so the orders last 6 sec. That extra second makes a huge difference I find. So much more time to fire off a blood ritual on the monk, or a self heal, or even a heal party if the monk is having a hard time keeping up with damage (bad sign right there).

And I am running with 3 sup runes. 305 health. Makes those saccs easier to handle.

sigried · Mar 15, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

OK one thing i do when i go orders is that i use i can eco on orders so i can recast the Order of vampire so when we engage the enemy we always have the orders with us, you can take blood ritual to to give energy either to MM or Monk.

so actually you will not have time to use healing on others most of the time the monk will only be healin the Order necro due to blood sacrifiece and the rangers with the order of vampire all the time they dont requiere healin.

an im not sayin the ss is better but some times it is faster