Curse

Murder In China · Apr 12, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

But that's the reason you have a monk in the party.

Cygnus_Zero · Apr 12, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I know, but if I am going to use one or the other, OotV is probably the better way to go. It doesn't make sense to me to use both over 1 second. I'm sure those enemies are brutal and with only 1 monk, I would think even great monks could use the support.

Murder In China · Apr 12, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

That's why you bring Blood Ritual also.

Cygnus_Zero · Apr 12, 2006, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Yeah im bringing that for the monk and occationally the MM.

Cygnus_Zero · Apr 12, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Just blazed my way through there. None of us died. It was actually really easy. I was kind of surprised. Got nothing outside of a gold Grim Cesta though. Oh well.

Cygnus_Zero · Apr 12, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Oh I forgot to mention that I ended up not bringing OoP. There is no need for that skill when you have an enchant mod on your weapon. There was usually only about a 1 second down time which had no effect on our team. I was basically able to keep OotV running the entire time we were fighting. I just ended up replacing it with Blood Renewal.

Murder In China · Apr 12, 2006, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Next time use the edit button =/ It looks like a triple post.

nomed · Apr 12, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GooD KaRmA

I don't like using awaken the blood first of all because for those extra 2 damage you are doing twice the damage to yourself.

Both wrong. You do +50% damage to yourself, not +100% and the +2 damage add up quite nicely.

2 damage*4 hits (average)*5 rangers*3 shots = 120 more damage every ~5 seconds.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 13, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

True it is 50% the damage with 371 life is
without with awaken the blood
63 to 94 Ootv 17%
93 to 139 Blood Renewal 25%
Your extra 2 in your calculatoin comes out to 1020 vs 1140 every 5 seconds. I haven't been a full out ranger so I don't know the damage barrage will do maxed out with winnowing and favorable winds but I'm guessing it's somewhere around 50 per arrow? Comes out to about 3,000 so as a group with 17 lifesteal you're doing 4,200 every 5 seconds so now you're having to heal yourself 50% more for 4,320. I sacrifice 4 more life then I heal party for. So figure in the healing that I can do now 59 x 8 people about every 6 seconds=472 with 1020 from Ootv coming out close to 1500 heal every 6 seconds whether they need it or not and I can cast heal other as required. Long story short extra 2 damage comes down to about nothing, it may require 1 more hit on a creature occasionally. Personnally I'd rather hang by the monk instead of hiding in the back. I guess other people have longer attention spans. Plus I'm a bit supersticious about drops and distance. I've never gotten an ecto as an orders in 25 or so runs but I've gotten about 15 as a MM in about 50 runs.

Cygnus_Zero · Apr 13, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

I just made my second run through last night. We made it through with 6 people which helped me to end up with 3 greens and 2 golds in the end since there was less people for the items to go to. Much better result than my 1st run. The 1st run was not difficult at all, but I walked away with next to nothing. 1 lame gold.

nomed · Apr 13, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Good karma, I hope you once get lucky and actually find a good group, because you will see that you won't need all the healing you are talking about and even if you had to sacrifice 90% of your hp it's no problem as long as you stay out of battles.

It's all about maxing out the strategy. Add the damage up. One fast run takes 40 minutes of which maybe 20 minutes are barrage spamming. The 2 more damage make about 30000 extra damage and will save you quite some minutes.

I don't know what we are discussing. If you wanna be average go with the +17, if you want to get out the best possible result you have to use ATB. That's how it is.

And if you are supersticious about things in a PC game all I can say is:
There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

thelessa · Apr 13, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I only use the healing to help monk and minions (if the MM want me to) or to self heal. Or if the monk gets disconnected. Last night that happened and I ended up monking the rest of the way thru to the end.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 13, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

So who are the other 8 types of people? It's just what I've seen if you're back so far that you're not even getting xp I seem to get less golds. Not to mention I get way too bored. If you want to maximize strategy how about this, with my build I don't need a monk-6 rangers, 1 mm, and me. So there's an extra 52156410523405605646 damage. Just have to hit the puller with heal other on his way back and 6 barrages x 17 lifesteal try it sometime with a good group and you'll never want a monk again.

nomed · Apr 14, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I didn't expect someone who thinks ATB makes you sacrifice twice as much to know what they are talking about, and you live up to my expectations.

You'll need more than luck on the first part of HoH without a monk. Maybe you'll have one of the gods spawning and protecting you if you are supersticious enough. Lol.

thelessa · Apr 14, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I would not want to go in without a monk, they may get a bit bored now and then, but they still have a VERY important job to do

GooD KaRmA · Apr 14, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

ROFL girly men. I've made it through with 3 rangers, a mm, and my orders from 1/2 way through level 2 and finished with greens. You can take your 2 extra damage, monk, amazing attention span, and go sit in the back playing with your skills and hope for a good group. I'm not saying I would kick a monk out of a group but if your whole goal is a fast run nothing beats 6xbarrage. Monks only job should be to heal the puller and occasional energy surge. It's pretty tough to take damage if they're dead in a few seconds. But you should already know everything with your equations of boredom and self admiration.

Worthington · Apr 14, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

not sure if 6 rangers is faster then 5 + monk, but Karma is correct in the fact that it is most certainly doable w/o one. Don't need luck, and don't need divine intervention.. just need a solid team.

Danger Russ · Apr 14, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Wow. I am digging this thread. I run the tombs all the time and I use a different build than all of these. It seems that almost all orders are purely support. I noticed some death and curse skills thow in. I like the idea of enfeebling blood. I may try that one. Most orders heal minions or the group. Me..I help with the kill. I am the guy who tries to plug the dam when one of those mean critters breaks though the wall of bodies.

16 blood
12 soul reaping
rest in protection
Superior Blood rune

Order of the Vampire
Order of pain/life siphon - not sure what is best here. Order of pain is almost never needed since I keep Oov up most of the time.
Blood Renewal
Blood Ritual
Vampire gaze (63 damage I think)
Shadow Strike (50/50) 100 damage on fresh meat
Well of blood (when things get bad- serves as rally point and pit stop for minions. Don't spam.
Rebirth

I use an insightful 20/20 blood staff of fortitude (just bought an 19% enchanting wrap and that will improve the staff loads.) All my skills are subject to the benefits of my staff.

I definitely use blood ritual on mm and monk all the time especially during combat. I keep my orders rolling and blood spike the folks who are putting up the most fight or break through the lines. Chaos wurms always catch some spike.

Cygnus_Zero · Apr 14, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

I'm really surprised you would go with a fortitude mod over enchanting on that staff.

GooD KaRmA · Apr 15, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Right after that he said he just got a wrapping, I'm sure he'll enjoy that extra second of OotV.