Curse

hellcat · Apr 07, 2007, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

yes the update is for pvp. but that doesnt change the fact that the necro soul reaping ability was very strong, bordering on imbalanced. how can unlimited energy pools without bringing any particular skills not border on imba? as for the energy cost complaint, then how does a mesmer survive? the majority of their money skills cost 10, with several others coming in at 15. without any kind of inherent energy bonus like soul reaping, how has the mesmer survived? the answer is by not spamming their skills on recharge, careful selection of targets, and relying on additional attribute lines and skills to help manage energy. and now the necro is no different, except for the fact they they still have some form of inherent energy gain to go along with these new practices.

i understand and agree with a lot of the complaints. id much rather SR being checked in a different way. i just think it starts to border on whining in these threads. and no i dont play a necro full time. but i dont play any class full time. i play all the classes (one pve char of each profession).

Well mesmers have MANY MANY spells that give energy back e.g stopping someone elses spell to give them 20 energy back, sure sounds like a effective energy management to me.

necros dont really have that many and well talking about an infinate energy pool is rediculace because not all the time and if minions were half and spirits none then theyd have the problem of not as much energy.

blackbird71 · Apr 08, 2007, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargamer

[sarcasm]Or maybe, since GW1 is dying, this is merely rigor-mortis, and Anet's flailing around making a mess of itself before someone Animates it, and makes it useful again for a short time, before it dies from degen.[/sarcasm]

I'm sorry, I know I'm veering off topic. I just have this compulsion to correct ignorant statements. Rigor Mortis is not something that occurs during the dying process, it sets in some time after death, how long depends on circumstances. It has nothing to do with "flailing around," quite the opposite, it is the stiffening of the joints. You're probably thinking of "death throws." I'm sorry for being a bit OC about this stuff, but please don't use big words when you don't know what they mean.

As for the topic itself, frankly I think the SR nerf was a bad idea. It seems to have backfired. From what I can tell, it was aimed at the MM necros in PvP who maintained massive numbers of minions with the energy from a large number of spirits. In practice, it seems that MM are having the least trouble adjusting to the change, and that other non-MM necro builds are being hit the hardest. Anet is going to have to stop and think whether their idea of a fix really did anything about the issue they felt was a problem, or if it has just created new problems to complicate the situation further. Personally, I believe it is the latter.

ZenRgy · Apr 08, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Actually it was aimed at Necro backlines, hex spammers etc. , from the PvP aspect.

hellcat · Apr 08, 2007, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Actually it was aimed at Necro backlines, hex spammers etc. , from the PvP aspect.

Well why if its aimed at pvp hex spammers why dont they sort it out so they get no energy from minions and spirits.

Its true this is aimed purely at pvp when pve was completely fine why change something that was working fine to something that people seem to be confused about atm some say its good some say its bad which is it?bad or good cos i personally think its rather bad that u get nothing for 5 seconds which is along time.

Why dont u make it so the elemental attunement spells only work after 5 seconds or they only work for so many spells huh? or give necros an option to actually have something like that e.g. they get x amount of energy back from taking damage or x amount of energy for everytime they hit or cast spells etc give us an option rather than just taking the e management away (for 5 seconds) and actually think properly how u can sort it out rather than some of the rather rash ideas that have been happening lately.

ZenRgy · Apr 08, 2007, 08:56 AM // 08:56

I'd rather it not trigger on spirits/minions than this 5 second rule, however this nerf has little effect in PvE necros (from my experience).

Franco Power · Apr 08, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

Don't you think it's idiotic you have to rely on another profession's skill list to be able to keep your energy up?
I for one do.

lawl, ofcourse it is idiotic, that's why people were using Necros more then monks to heal

.

mortis corpus · Apr 08, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Personally i think that this particular change to the soul reaping ability to be completely not right to the Necros. Other proffessions get there little perks;

Elementalist: get massive amounts of energy more if added to there energy storage, also they have skills that give back a presentage of energy for the skills that are cast,

Ritualists get the ability to add life to that which they summon to help, (combined as an mm not bad but still)

Paragon: Gets 1 energy for each shout or chant Max 1 energy for every 2 ranks

Dervish 1 energy and 1 health for each 3 ranks of mysticism

Assassin: When an attack is a critical hit you gain 1 Energy at 3 ranks and above, 2 Energy at 8 ranks and above, and 3 Energy at 13 ranks and above.

I could go on however in combine with the other skills that got changed over just the same update, it would seam to me there are some proffessions that dont like the idea of 1 or 2 necros with a horde of 10 minions each being able to keep creating them on site *mind you there are several ways and i have been on the recieving end to intrupt them*
and not to turn into a flame why is it that my necro takes a hit, and a guildies Assassin gets buffed (hmmm things that make you wonder)

Again just my thought on the whole thing

Alex Morningstar · Apr 08, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

...however this nerf has little effect in PvE necros (from my experience).

Same here. I don't know why everyone is crying about how their necros are now broken when it's still business as usual for me. All my builds still work as is, and I still have no energy problems. But, I don't rely on any characters primary attribute for energy management either because I practice a little restraint instead of spamming skills as they are available. I think too many people do, so when the nerf bat comes out they are screwed.

Brian the Gladiator · Apr 09, 2007, 02:13 AM // 02:13

A-net needs to seperate PvE and PvP as many will agree with me. Not to go off topic but I have a hunch that A-net thinks they should too, especially in GW:EN. That may be why they are going to be adding so many PvE only skills. I hope that A-net will address the cry for PvE and PvP seperation and fix the problem.

Glints Bane · Apr 09, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I took my necro to DoA and did a GLoom/Foundry run...yeah lets just say that the energy problem was there.

I was running BiP build and even then with alot of my skills only costing 5 energy I found myself out of energy all the time. Because spamming BiP to everyone in the party(minus tank) got me to zero fast. When the foes would die they died all at the same time because of the nuke spike and EoE. This has dramatically messed, IMO one of the funnest classes in the game to play.

Why? · Apr 09, 2007, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Anyone who says SR gave unlimited energy in PvE hasn't got a clue.

I run a blood build with 13 SR, and I've run Reaper's Mark since I capped it within the first week of NF.

I always had energy problems before the nerf, and now my energy is almost non-existant.

This nerf is way too much, and needs to be rethought.

Alex Morningstar · Apr 09, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

... Because spamming BiP to everyone in the party(minus tank) got me to zero fast. ...

lol, this would be why you're having energy problems.

Nekretaal · Apr 09, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

I'm sure I could adapt... but It's time for me to move on. I havent played any GW: PvE since friday, and bought Neverwinter nights over the weekend. My guild leader quit over this change too, so its probably best to say goodbye to Guild wars rather than relearn to play my necromancer (3 thousand hours played, 13 titles, rank 10) and find a new group to play with.

It's just not worth the effort to relearn the character to play the same old maps, and its not worth the time to wait for anet to balance the character's skills to fit the new soulreaping (5 months or more judging by recent history).

I heard that they just made lord of the rings online free until April 24, so maybe I'll give that a try too.

helldrik · Apr 10, 2007, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I think that the SR change needs to be rethough...
Thinking about it:
Its a change obviously done to balance pvp MMs
With that change PvE MMs can play well as before
What builds suffers with that change? PvE non MMs build..

Ive played my necro with some curses build in the domain of torment and often I was without any energy, not becouse Im not "Pro" (I play since the first day GW came out), but becouse with a really good party you can kill lot of enemies at the same time, and with a bar full of high energy cost skills....its GG, and all you can do is kiting whos targeting you :P

As written above, I think that SR should be rethough in half way from how was before, and how is it now...for example:
Spirits death=0 energy
Minion death=half energy
Pause between one soul reaping and another= 2-3 seconds (in that way can be avoided a ridicolous amount of energy gain, and high energy cost builds in pve would be viable again)

Anyone can say that necros now should think more before cast, as mesmer does...well my primary character is a mesmer. Necro and mesmer have totally differents game styles, and thats what makes both fun, and I do not wish now to play my necro as it was a mesmer with green skills...not to mention that mesmers has the inspiration line that can shutdown an anemy while gaining energy...

PS: sorry for my not so good english

jon0592 · Apr 10, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Well on Thursday night I made a factions necro and about 4-5 hours ago I finished factions campaign. I used MM all the way, this is my build BEFORE I can cap Golem.

Animate Shambling Horror
Animate Bone Horror
Blood of the Master
Taste of Death
Deathly Swarm
Healing Breeze
Ressurect

And then once I could cap Golem, build stayed the same + Golem. Seeing as I never played with the old SR, I can't say what it's like but I was still definitely in control of things. I have 51 energy and lowest I go is 30. There are rare times like Nahpui Quarter and Raisu Palace where I waste my energy (dips down to 10-20, but I recover quickly) because the Monster Necromancers exploit the bodies before I do.

Now I'm waiting for the Expertise nerf and the Strength buff...

cyberjanet · Apr 10, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

To non-MM builds. My first character is a Necromancer, I love the genre, but I think I (and most of the community) have simply become so used to the virtually endless supply of energy that we associate it as a component of the profession.
... It's hardly the end of the Profession, its just time to rethink ourselves.

Enjoy!

Enjoy? No. I don't. My first character is also a Necromancer, and I have learned to play the genre within the specifications of the game. I have been playing for 8 months, my necro has a million and half XP and is nearly 600 hours old.

On Friday I went out and suddenly whammo! Here I was dead again all the time.

I went and capped a new elite for a new build; I looked at new ways of redoing my most-used build. But you know what? My heart just isn't in it. I don't actually feel like playing any more, which will probably please my husband a great deal.

What's happened here is that ANet are scrapping the Necro as we know it and making us play an entirely new class.

Avarre · Apr 10, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glints Bane

I took my necro to DoA and did a GLoom/Foundry run...yeah lets just say that the energy problem was there.

I was running BiP build and even then with alot of my skills only costing 5 energy I found myself out of energy all the time. Because spamming BiP to everyone in the party(minus tank) got me to zero fast. When the foes would die they died all at the same time because of the nuke spike and EoE. This has dramatically messed, IMO one of the funnest classes in the game to play.

If all the foes died at the same time, why would it make a difference if you got energy for them all or only for one? They're dead, you can regen - or use one of your 7 other skills to gather some energy back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why?

Anyone who says SR gave unlimited energy in PvE hasn't got a clue.

I run a blood build with 13 SR, and I've run Reaper's Mark since I capped it within the first week of NF.

I ran an SS build in the SMS-3man fow run with 11 SR, and despite being the only source of major damage and having no energy management on my bar (as well as running only 3 regen), never came close to running out.

There are two situations as I see it.

Monsters die over time = no real change
Monsters die at once = no more monsters, no need for immediate energy

If you're running out of energy before monsters die, then you have a problem with your build itself that is independent of SR. That or you're playing it badly.

Friday · Apr 10, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

This is my PvE aspect of this situation, as was requested by the OP. Others still seem to be trying to force the PvP side into this thread.

My Necro was born in Nightfall, she is 472 hours old. I have a total of 1 394 hours in this game over 8 months. I do not participate PvP except to join guildies occasionally for some AB.

Firstly, I play Guild Wars to have FUN. It is my escapist relaxation the way other's read books, go to the movies, watch TV or socialize at a BBQ with friends.

Now why do I have to "work" at my FUN, why do I need to "think" about my FUN "cruise-control" builds? Why do I need some-one to tell me that my FUN PvE is "too easy" and I must now "learn to play"? Now why do I need to have the base difficulty of my FUN ramped up because someone else feels that it's too easy?

For heaven's sake - use your skill bar to make things more difficult for yourself. If you feel that your primary attribute is over-powered then drop your points in it so that it provides you with less advantage. Take less people in your party, go solo with only 3 skills on your bar... ANYTHING.... just please don't force everyone else to comply with "your" definition of fun.

Secondly, who cares if an attribute provides an advantage - thats what they are there for.

Thirdly, who cares if PvE has some imbalances - you are not affecting any other players in Guild Wars PvE, as it's an INSTANCED game.

Fourthly, Soul Reaping was hardly as "overpowered" as it's being made out to be. I only cite the classes I play with the skills I have available:

My Ele:
Energy Storage provides 3 energy for each rank you put into it. My Ele has 88 energy on her energy bar, runs with Elemental Attunement and Glyph of Lesser Energy (both Energy Storage skills) on her skill bar so that she can use EFFECTIVE high energy skills. Energy Storage has 5 specific energy gain skills in it.
My Ranger:
Expertise provides 4% less energy cost for skills per rank you put into it. My Ranger runs with 12 in Expertise so her skills cost 48% less energy to use. She also has Archers signet available if I wish to sacrifice my elite slot to further energy management
My Warrior:
My Warrior runs with 12 in strength to add to her damage output and has no less than 8 skills available in that attributes skills to gain adrenalin and energy.
My Monk:
Poor girl trawls her skills list for low energy high effect skills. She will mourn the limit now placed on the BiP necros at high end PvE.

NECRO:
Soul Reaping:It provides 1 energy for each rank you put into it whenever a creature near you dies, you gain half that amount for spirits. So at 12 SR you gain 12 energy when a creature near you dies, and 6 when a spirit dies. In PvE energy gain from spirits is not an issue - you are moving too fast for it to in any way have an influence.

My Necro has precisely 2 skills in Soul Reaping to help with energy gain - Signet of Lost souls and Reapers Mark {Elite}. Both are conditional, and both return an effective 8 energy IF the conditions are met (at rank 12 in SR).

So my Necro has only one real energy management tool and that IS Soul Reaping, and it only works during a combat situation when creatures are dying and you only get 12 energy per creature that dies.

It is not "unlimited" energy as some suggest, it is hardly "overpowered" compared to my other Characters primary attributes, not including my energy starved Monk

Do NOT tell me to use a secondary for energy management! The returns on the attribute point investment is laughable. And why should I have to tie my secondary proff down to say Mesmer when I change my secondary to suit the fight I am going to get into.

Anyway, this missive (and the whole thread) is all just so much hot air anyway, me letting off steam. It's my opinion only and Anet has indirectly stated through Gaile (please see her post in the Riverside thread) that nothing will change their minds about the alteration to SR and they are just looking to alter some of the necro skill's energy costs.

No, this change hasn't affected my Necro's ability to get things done, BUT she is no longer the FUN she used to be, she's now in the same class as my Monk - for when I have the energy and am awake enough to have to WORK at PLAYING A GAME. She is 2 missions away from completing Nightfall, and will then be retired to the "do I feel like making the effort" side of my Char selection screen, probably just to be a mule tho. My Ele is more fun now, and when they change that to be less fun, then ... well... whatever... Life changes and who knows what I'll be playing by that time - it may not even be Guild Wars.

Keep well
Friday

ZenRgy · Apr 10, 2007, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Friday

My Warrior:
My Warrior runs with 12 in strength to add to her damage output and has no less than 8 skills available in that attributes skills to gain adrenalin and energy.
My Monk:
Poor girl trawls her skills list for low energy high effect skills. She will mourn the limit now placed on the BiP necros at high end PvE.

1) Strength blows.

2) You should have maybe 2~ skills that are 10e/15e as a mon (as the 5e skills are efficient enough)k, and most smart monks and manage energy and use secondary energy management.

That's why Guild Wars offers secondary professions, for skill synergy.

And maybe I misread but I respect you play to relax but it sounds you sort of just want to sit and move through the game rather than playing (which is actually very possible, considering how easy it is.)

Friday · Apr 10, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

ZenRgy:

My Monks skill bar changes almost constantly depending on who i am playing with and where we are going, but two rather typical spreads I use are:

[skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill], [skill]Heal Other[/skill], [skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill], [skill]Words of Comfort[/skill], [skill]Blessed Light[/skill], [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill], [skill]Remove Hex[/skill], [skill]Resurrect[/skill]
Healing Prayers: 12 + 1 + 2
Protection Prayers: 3
Divine Favour: 12

or:
[skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill], [skill]Remove Hex[/skill], [skill]Mend Condition[/skill], [skill]Divert Hexes[/skill], [skill]Jamei's Gaze[/skill], [skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill], [skill]Heal Other[/skill], [skill]Resurrect[/skill]
Healing Prayers: 12 + 1 + 2
Protection Prayers: 6
Divine Favor: 11

Only two of my current builds

, and they manage quite well.

Strength - yes it blows -.- ..... because at Strength 12 with [skill]Counterattack[/skill] I get a +29 attack for 0 energy expended (5e cost and 5e return)...