Curse

ZenRgy · Apr 06, 2007, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

So sad that now other classes can perform the job of spamming curses better.

An ele/necro can now manage its energy better then a necro, especially because soul reaping only seems to trigger twice per mob.

A mesmer/necro with high devotion into inspiration and auspicious incantation can also spam curses better.

Ok, the stat won't be maxed, but that is compensated by actually being able to do what the necro was ment for: spam curses.

Me/N SS lfg FoW (better then any necro)!!

You're over exaggerating, perhaps you should learn to play necro because I have had no energy problems and SR triggers enough for me to spam my skills on recharge.

Also, running an E/N curser is retarded.

I'm glad that people may use some secondary energy management (GoLE, Power Drain etc.)

joukou · Apr 06, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Hey, I have an idea. Why not try to adapt to these changes?

If you run out of energy with your old build, why not try to change it to get it work again?

Effendi Westland · Apr 06, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTickle

So now Anet have ruined 2 of my favorite chars which is next?

Shadowstepping?

Leadership?

Improvavel · Apr 06, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

I dont see many changes.

Ive tested MM and SS in perdition rock and in consulate docks.
I ll later see how tombs go.

You will get a tad less energy gain, and leave battles with half energy bar instead of full energy bar.

Other than that I didnt see many problems.

If all your enemies die a 3-4 seconds window, why the hell do you need to regain more energy to recast more curses on the enemies.

Minions got a cost reduction, so no problem of raising a minion and no energy to heal them. Actually it got easier when you raise them after battle.

Olias had no problems keeping his army up vs hydras, so...

I can see order tomb necros suffer a bit, as spamming stuff like OoV and heal party can become a little bit more difficult.

It seems a bit of overreaction.

Erik Fox · Apr 06, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

My Necro is my main char, and I play several builds(no I do not play MM - ever). I have tested the ones I think to be the most energy demanding and I am unsatisfied with the change to SR.

Orders N/Mo in Tombs
I thought at the beginning that this wasn't so bad, I couldn't cast constantly anymore but I wasn't running out of energy. As we moved up in floors however it became harder and harder to manage energy. Several times I had to sit there and wait for my energy to regen, and remove maintained enchantments to have enough to keep orders up. The MM alongside me was complaining of energy problems too, not being able to heal her army.

Battery for 8 man FoW
Now this is just hard. Managing energy and health while keeping the Eles/monks charged up without the old SR is very hard. On one hand I like things to be challenge and be able to feel that I'm playing a build that requires me to actually pay attention to things around me, but I don't like to be continually frustrated while I'm playing.

I like changes that force people to think and take away the 'mindless' style of playing, but I think this change to SR is just too frustrating. From what I hear ingame and on these forums is that most of the inexperienced Necros are shut down, and even the ones that have played Necros since the beginning are having trouble. I also play a Mesmer and Monk so I DO know about e-management, and I stand with the fact that SR is the Necro's e-mgnt. I think this change should be thought about very hard before becoming permanent.

Bargamer · Apr 06, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

So sad that now other classes can perform the job of spamming curses better.

An ele/necro can now manage its energy better then a necro, especially because soul reaping only seems to trigger twice per mob.

A mesmer/necro with high devotion into inspiration and auspicious incantation can also spam curses better.

Ok, the stat won't be maxed, but that is compensated by actually being able to do what the necro was ment for: spam curses.

Me/N SS lfg FoW (better then any necro)!!

Experienced Rit/N MM LFG!

Seriously, this update made me LAWL. Once Factions came out, I never went back to my Necro. With pretty-much-free Razah for everyone and the SR nerf, maybe finally Rits will become appreciated.

[sarcasm]Or maybe, since GW1 is dying, this is merely rigor-mortis, and Anet's flailing around making a mess of itself before someone Animates it, and makes it useful again for a short time, before it dies from degen.[/sarcasm]

hellcat · Apr 06, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Ok i been "testing" in my own way and tbh the change of this is a little out of order - think about it the original pupose of this attribute was to gain energy when something dies - u cant just suddenly out of the blue just say oh look theres now a 5 second cap were u cant gain no energy because it makes the attribute kinda pointless and a waste of skill points, u may aswell just put about 5 in it at most to try allow urself to top of abit of energy.

Also alot of necromancers good spells are very high energy costs, alot of the low energy ones are pretty useless unless u have some sort of condition met like the monster needs to be hexed and suffering a condition to work which makes it again rather pointless because to cast the other 2 spells to make it work even for 5 energy will in the end cost u 15.

Elementalists have very good energy management (with their huge amount of it) by using glyphs and the sort well yeh n/e can do that but whaat if their build requires them to use a monk 2ndary?

Also rangers get 4% off a skill for every attribute point so they end up having about 40% off with 10 making a 20 energy spell cost 12 so it works out good.

Warriors use adren most the time so no need for energy much.

So i suggest u consider doing what other people have said by making the spirits give 0 and minions half because people will end up just dumping their necros and playing other classes, and well if thats what u want - well done.

Jadi Lontres · Apr 07, 2007, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

ill take a stab in the dark and say you dont pvp do you? not a knock or a flame, just asking. in pvp, soul reaping was being abused by mostly spirits. a constant stream of dying spirits = never ending pool of energy = very imbalanced. thats the primary reason for the change.

I actually do PVP but I never do halls. I was actually referring to PVE where the environment is different in what I tested so far. I also mentioned that I understand that it has to be balanced in PVP which is fine, it's just that things are now different in PVE that we have to rethink our strategy instead of "spam, spam, spam". I am guilty of this too but it does affect how you play in PVE. As for the spirits, I really don't care if they give half or zero energy because I am better off without it. Since they're undead as well as minions, I think they should not count since they are already dead to begin with in which is the underlying cause of the abuse.

Effendi Westland · Apr 07, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bargamer

Experienced Rit/N MM LFG!

Seriously, this update made me LAWL. Once Factions came out, I never went back to my Necro. With pretty-much-free Razah for everyone and the SR nerf, maybe finally Rits will become appreciated.

A friend of mine also uses a Rt MM build, will have to test it on Razah

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

You're over exaggerating, perhaps you should learn to play necro because I have had no energy problems and SR triggers enough for me to spam my skills on recharge.

Also, running an E/N curser is retarded.

I'm glad that people may use some secondary energy management (GoLE, Power Drain etc.)

Maybe I play too well with half the opponents dying at the same time, leaving me with not enough energy to spam my curses again?

E/N curser is indeed retarted, tried today... and meh.

But I do not like the way we're forced into going for a secondary for e-management or invest highly into SR (beyond 9). Since when do other classes need e-management outside their class? Warriors, Assassins, Dervishes, Paragons, Mesmers and Elementalist, Rangers and Ritualist all have options that are widely used. Maybe Ritualist to a lesser degree. Only monks seem to be starving for energy.

And don't mention elites and consume corpse as e-management please, other classes have either more options or it incorperated into their primary.

Kinky Elf · Apr 07, 2007, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Just gave my MM a try in Tombs... It was a challenge but I managed... The biggest problem I faced was worm seige and meteor shower... 10 minions then 2 minions and no energy... I had to ping my energy bar like a newb... "help me help me" lol... I'm thinking I'm going to have to change my build yet again... Oh yeah... I was one of those N/Me with 20+ fiends running around before that got nerfed... Before this nerf I was able to run a N/Mo with 9 fiends and a fleshy up most of the time... The run I just did I think I had more bone horrors up than fiends most of the time... *sniff* I'm going to miss my fiends but I guess I'm going to have to get something else that doesn't cost so much energy... I bet there will be a really cool new minion in Eye of the North... Why?... $50 a copy... While I heard how PVP N/Rt builds are so unfair... I have no clue... I just PVE... I believe that ANet/NCSoft could really care less... I believe some how these changes a designed to effect their sales... These companies are in business to make money... And why not... Being in business to lose money just makes no sense... So while it makes me a bit upset to change my build yet again I will and I will move on until the next nerf... I guess it is the "game" we play... I'll try and look on the bright side and think of all the money I will make when the elite runs and drops can only be done by the elite players of the game... Oh yeah... Before I ran my MM I ran Orders... Didn't have any problems... Kept succor on monk and didn't really notice much of an energy challenge... KK... Well I just wanted to through my 2 cents worth in... Have fun...

Peace,
Elf

Cathode_Reborn · Apr 07, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

I think it's safe to say that a majority of the people complaining are inexperienced at playing a Necro. It seems that the state of actually running out of energy is new to them. Even an ele in pve can run out of energy at times. Don't forget that they need attunements to keep that energy up where a necro didn't have to bring any e-mangement skills at all. Expertise is an entire different thing so please don't try to compare it with SR. In pve, a Necro healer (N/Mo or N/Rit) was superior to a primary healer because they literally had an infinite amount of energy where a Monk or Rit actually have to monitor their energy closely.

Everyone who's played a nec in pve saw the ridiculous amounts of energy they gained. Now primary necs will know what it feels like to not be able to mindlessly spam high-energy spells whenever they want. 10 energy every 5 secs as many have said is still alot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTickle

Only getting 6 energy back once every 5 seconds is useless! I constantly have to wait to cast especially now for some unknown reason Reckless Haste costs an extra 5 en. This nerf is a piss take. IF I wanted to constantly wait for energy then I'd play my useless mesmer instead. Just because PvP players abuse SR it's not right you should ruin it for PvE players. Simply remove energy gain from spirits and put it back to how it was.

How about actually increasing your SR higher than 6? That's stupidly low. But I guess you got too used to spam thanks to the old SR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

So sad that now other classes can perform the job of spamming curses better.

An ele/necro can now manage its energy better then a necro, especially because soul reaping only seems to trigger twice per mob.

A mesmer/necro with high devotion into inspiration and auspicious incantation can also spam curses better.

That's ridiculous. If you gotta play a primary ele or a mes with high inspiration to run a curses build, that's sad. Necros got e-mangement already: [skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]. We don't need skills from the nerfed inspiration line. SR is fine. If you got a brain that works, energy won't be a serious problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Having our primary nerfed (which was superior to the others) just puts us on the same scale, that is balance. If we need to use a glyph or something for energy management, so be it.

That's pretty much how it is - pve Necs were the only class with unlimited energy. Even after the nerf, SR is still powerful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

Maybe you should respect ANet for the good job that everyone seems not to appreciate? Just because necromancers cant spam every spell under the sun anymore, doesn't mean they suck, cant do anything or otherwise useless anymore. Believe it or not, my heroes still use SS and a MM. I had their status bars open and they never dropped below 20. This update is like an xmas present to me. I love it.

Everyone will still MM and SS after making a few changes to their builds. Even with the tons of complaints, people will eventually adapt to it. I do think that people should at least give some respect to Anet, especially if you look at the TONS of updates making the game better.

Does anyone remember the thread discussing why Necs shouldn't bring BR just for the monks? Many thought it was unnecessary because it was their job to manage their own energy......but now....pve Necs actually gotta be careful with what they use, but they got so used to the unlimited energy from SR that they won't accept the change. Pve was easy enough as it is.....quit whining

Get better at playing a nec. Yeah spamming Heal Party with Healer's Boon was nice (and obviously superior to what a monk can do) but that's seems a tad bit out of balance if you ask me =/

I do feel that SR could've been nerfed in a different way, but oh well....my Nec will still be my favorite player. Just give it some time....maybe Anet will find a better different way to nerf SR. If not, then things just won't be as easy as they were before

ss1986v2 · Apr 07, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

...everything...

so QFT!

sure something different would be nice, but people will adapt and move on, just like from every other nerf (knights armor/shield mods, renewal/prodigy, ect...). everyone cried and raged over these changes, but in the end, life moved on, and neither classed died out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadi Lontres

I actually do PVP but I never do halls. I was actually referring to PVE where the environment is different in what I tested so far. I also mentioned that I understand that it has to be balanced in PVP which is fine, it's just that things are now different in PVE that we have to rethink our strategy instead of "spam, spam, spam". I am guilty of this too but it does affect how you play in PVE.

very true. things like MM, SS, BiP, Orders, and others are all affected by the change, some much more significantly more that others (MM works fine as does Orders. SS is weaker, but not dead. BiP does pose some issues, but you can still maintain). its just that none of these templates are dead, they are just different and/or weaker than they were before. soul reaping didnt get "renewal'd" it just finally got its piece of the nerf bat. things will be different in the future, no doubt. but it really just means less spam, and a bit more concern over energy. just like it is for every other class.

Bekkr · Apr 07, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

There are so many of these pro-SR nerf posts here that I really could respond to, but I won't. What I will say, is this:

I've got 3 accounts, but the character I've always considered my "main" is a necro. Why? Because it's the one I have (had) the most fun playing. This PvE nerf under the guise of a PvP balance issue has removed much of that feeling for me personally. Yes, I do think SR may have been a bit out of balance, but not only does this go too far, it defies explanation why they didn't simply remove SR from spirits and/or minions. Like many others, I don't think I've EVER heard someone say (whether they played necros or not) "I wish Anet would fix soul reaping, necros have way too much energy in PvE". Seriously, who was complaining about this (PvE-wise)? I'm guessing no one.

Bottom line: for me, it's a game... and for me to want to play it, it has to be FUN. SR nerf=less fun=less chance of me buying any expansions, etc... and I don't think I'm alone in this. Balance, schmalance... if it makes PvE less fun, then they should find another way to deal with the problem.

Lazy.
</rant>

hellcat · Apr 07, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

very true. things like MM, SS, BiP, Orders, and others are all affected by the change, some much more significantly more that others (MM works fine as does Orders. SS is weaker, but not dead. BiP does pose some issues, but you can still maintain). its just that none of these templates are dead, they are just different and/or weaker than they were before. soul reaping didnt get "renewal'd" it just finally got its piece of the nerf bat. things will be different in the future, no doubt. but it really just means less spam, and a bit more concern over energy. just like it is for every other class.

Alot of the necros main spells cost 10-15 energy so 4 spells and ur energy is gone im sorry but this update is plainly for pvp, pve was fine,
and also about the person saying those who cant manage energy for necros arent "pro's" well think again , lets all play necros and stand still cos u have no energy hurrah.

Sorry for my "childish reply" but obviously most of u people dont play necros as a full time thing.

hellcat · Apr 07, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Oh and also i can manage my energy well efficiently with all my classes because alot of their good skills or spells only cost 5 energy like my monk i can manage her energy very well just on 3 pips of energy because i have a whole bar full of 5 energy spells.

Necros just cant do this - sad but its true no great necro spells is under 10 energy.

ss1986v2 · Apr 07, 2007, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellcat

Alot of the necros main spells cost 10-15 energy so 4 spells and ur energy is gone im sorry but this update is plainly for pvp, pve was fine,
and also about the person saying those who cant manage energy for necros arent "pro's" well think again , lets all play necros and stand still cos u have no energy hurrah.

Sorry for my "childish reply" but obviously most of u people dont play necros as a full time thing.

yes the update is for pvp. but that doesnt change the fact that the necro soul reaping ability was very strong, bordering on imbalanced. how can unlimited energy pools without bringing any particular skills not border on imba? as for the energy cost complaint, then how does a mesmer survive? the majority of their money skills cost 10, with several others coming in at 15. without any kind of inherent energy bonus like soul reaping, how has the mesmer survived? the answer is by not spamming their skills on recharge, careful selection of targets, and relying on additional attribute lines and skills to help manage energy. and now the necro is no different, except for the fact they they still have some form of inherent energy gain to go along with these new practices.

i understand and agree with a lot of the complaints. id much rather SR being checked in a different way. i just think it starts to border on whining in these threads. and no i dont play a necro full time. but i dont play any class full time. i play all the classes (one pve char of each profession).

ghostkai · Apr 07, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

puts necro in storage..... *cries*

ZenRgy · Apr 07, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Over the past few days I've seen so many drama queens thinking thinking their necros are obsolete now, really - it shows how stupid peopel are on this forum.

16/10/10 is a perfect attribute spread for most builds, 10+ in SR is always wise, running < 9 is stupid, running < 6 means you should uninstall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Since when do other classes need e-management outside their class? Warriors, Assassins, Dervishes, Paragons, Mesmers and Elementalist, Rangers and Ritualist all have options that are widely used. Maybe Ritualist to a lesser degree. Only monks seem to be starving for energy.

Warriors, assassins, dervishes and paragons A) Run on ardrenaline and/or have little energy demand which can be countered by a zealous weapon.

Actually, paragons would occasionally run Balth Spirit for energy.
Mesmers have been known to run GoLE along with their own (a power drain or something).
Elementalists run on their own because GoLE is just superior to most other forms of energy management.

MrTickle · Apr 07, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

The funny thing is they give us less energy yet up the cost of Reckless Haste

I've now totally changed my build so i have 12 in SR which still isn't enough a lot of the time. They've changed too many skills just lately and not for the good of PvE which is the only way I want to play.
The FUN has gone from playing my main character and I too won't be buying any more expansions nor GW2 UNLESS we have separate skills from PvP.

joukou · Apr 07, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekkr

Like many others, I don't think I've EVER heard someone say (whether they played necros or not) "I wish Anet would fix soul reaping, necros have way too much energy in PvE". Seriously, who was complaining about this (PvE-wise)? I'm guessing no one.

Duh, monsters can't complain.
They just stand there and get owned by enemies who never run out of energy.