Curse

GhostRaptor · Sep 26, 2007, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

shut up. NO ONE listen to this. are you on crack? minion mastering is best left to higher levels where you can actually maintain a few minions. lvl 14 was a very low level for someone to start MMing. i wouldnt advise it until lvl 20. please learn to play.....

I was playing with Draxynnic during the period of time he mentions, and his low-level MM builds were pretty effective actually. Mind you, we were playing through the content in mission order and not rushing straight to the L20 stuff, but regardless - his minions made a huge difference, especially in tandem with my Spirit Spam Rit.

Coloneh · Sep 26, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

draxynnic, the strength on a MM lies in the number of minions, a flesh wall. not in their strength. thats why flesh golem sucks.

Moloch Vein · Sep 26, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Defiled Knight

Ok here is my meleemancer for those interested

Attribute points:
Blood Magic: 15
Soul Reaping: 10
Swordsmanship: 11

Skills:
-Blood Renewal
-Demonic Flesh
-Vampiric Bite
-Any two sword attacks of your choice, I basically go for alot of damage with my attacks so dragon slash goes well here.
-Unholy Feast
-Signet of lost souls or Life Siphon
-Rez signet

[...]

How does this "tank" (if you can call something with no armor, no damage protection, no damage reduction and no self heal or energy management worth noting a "tank) deal with Bladed Aaxtes hitting you for 200+ damage every 2 seconds in UW?

The Defiled Knight · Sep 26, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Mate have you tried it? and if you read properly for UW i added use tactics instead of soul reaping and bring along those three blocking moves, wait until you actually try it cause i've been using it for the past year and have not struggled one bit when fighting aataxes and such.

But hey if your too narrow minded to even try something new then why are you even commenting on it?

Moloch Vein · Sep 27, 2007, 12:17 AM // 00:17

I'm not narrow minded, I just find this pretty hilarious.

Three blocking moves and you claim to be able to block every strike from the monkeys? Gladiator's Defense is kept up 1/3 of the times, Riposte requires adrenaline and Deadly has a 10 seconds recharge. Where's your energy management? And you tell us to, uh, "bring a warrior to tank with you"? Your teams must love bringing dead weight.

If you'd posted something in the lines of AoTL, Shield of Absorption etc, I could've taken you somewhat more seriously. AoTL tanks are still not very good but they sure beat a big-HP punching bag.

Don't even get me started about using this to tank in DoA... that's just classic

The Defiled Knight · Sep 27, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Haha tools like you are always scared of something new, well how about this on my next run i'll take a few screenies and maybe a video and i shall let you see the build in action, maybe the you'll shut your face and maybe you'll learn to try something before you go saying shit about it.

I'll post the screenies later tonight after i take them.

Moloch Vein · Sep 27, 2007, 12:28 AM // 00:28

First, meleemancers are hardly "new". They are just not always advertised as "tanks" when they can't take any damage.

Second, I'll up you on that. I'll pay a 2-man 1k UW run to see this build in action. You go as tank, I go as SS. 50/50 finders-keepers. Deal?

Chthon · Sep 27, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

First, meleemancers are hardly "new". They are just not always advertised as "tanks" when they can't take any damage.

Second, I'll up you on that. I'll pay a 2-man 1k UW run to see this build in action. You go as tank, I go as SS. 50/50 finders-keepers. Deal?

Let me up the ante on this. I'll bet you (The Defiled Knight) 20k that you can't clear the chamber. Proof is your screenshot of you and Moloch and a smite crawler, with that build showing, and a party window showing no one else OR Moloch's screenshot of the two of you dead in the Labyrinth.

Coloneh · Sep 27, 2007, 02:26 AM // 02:26

The Defiled Knight, i wish i was you right now. a free 20k just for doing your normal farm. lucky goose....

draxynnic · Sep 27, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

draxynnic, the strength on a MM lies in the number of minions, a flesh wall. not in their strength. thats why flesh golem sucks.

At least you've now given a reason rather than just flaming...

They do damage too. I guess you think Bone Fiends are worthless too, or do they represent defense in depth?

I can see the reasoning in high-level play where they're struggling to punch through armour, and if you're going up against level 24s or 28s then you most definitely should be using armour-ignoring effects if you're a baby yourself. If you haven't been rushed to the high-end areas and you're fighting opponents appropriate to your level, however, it's possible at lower levels to have minions (in the generic sense, if not the results of Animate Bone Minion) that are equal to or higher than the level of the monsters. Now, most people would consider having your opposition beat in quality and quantity to be a GOOD thing.

Heck, any time you're more than a level or two higher than the opposition I'd certainly advise against using Curses or Blood - armour-ignoring is great for taking down things that are bigger than you, but not quite so good when their armour is low enough that you're doing more damage than your weapon or skill advertises. 'Course, in those situations it probably doesn't matter anyway, but damage from sources that care about armour will let you kill the enemy faster.

blue.rellik · Sep 27, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

shut up. NO ONE listen to this. are you on crack? minion mastering is best left to higher levels where you can actually maintain a few minions. lvl 14 was a very low level for someone to start MMing. i wouldnt advise it until lvl 20. please learn to play.....

I disagree, when I first made my necro, I was running a crappy quasi hybrid MM-blood necro (because I didn't have the skills for anything else). I had no trouble with any mission until I reached the desert (where corpses became fairly scarce in missions). While you're not as effective as possible, neither are the enemy mobs I was fighting. I was consistently making minions with levels equal to or greater than what I was fighting which meant I basically had another 4 or 5 warriors on the team.

wetsparks · Sep 27, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

I would like to say that blood magic is viable in later parts of the game, not just the noobie areas. Especially in hard mode when the enemies attack twice as fast and have a lot of life. [skill]spoil victor[/skill] (which I use at 16 blood magic) will do tons of damage to an enemy, I combine that with some domination magic out of the mesmer line. Like someone else has said, you could go mass degen with an elite like [skill]life transfer[/skill] but I don't have much experience with that. Also, monks and eles love a necro that uses [skill]blood is power[/skill]. Unfortunately, there aren't many more good blood magic elites other than [skill]well of power[/skill].

jrk247 · Sep 27, 2007, 07:19 AM // 07:19

[skill]Life Transfer[/skill] is shit, don't use it. If you are going blood use SV, if you want degen use [skill]Reaper's Mark[/skill] paired either with blood skills or curses skills.

Carinae · Sep 27, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

[skill]Life Transfer[/skill] is shit, don't use it.

Same for: [skill]well of power[/skill]

glountz · Sep 27, 2007, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I disagree, when I first made my necro, I was running a crappy quasi hybrid MM-blood necro (because I didn't have the skills for anything else). I had no trouble with any mission until I reached the desert (where corpses became fairly scarce in missions). While you're not as effective as possible, neither are the enemy mobs I was fighting. I was consistently making minions with levels equal to or greater than what I was fighting which meant I basically had another 4 or 5 warriors on the team.

+1.
My girlfriend is MM and was from the first level. The fact is that asa you'll acess to runes and armor, as Draxynic said, you can have a +3 (helm + major which is not expensive) in Death. Yeah you won't have 10 minions, but you can reach really easily 6-7 minions with a higher level than mobs.
And against low levels and scarse mobs that is currently HUGE.
In addition, she was only doing Bone horrors so she didn't mind the energy and had low SR. The rest was attack skills.
MM in PVE has always been overpowered, and it is overpowered even with low level characters.
So Coloneh you're wrong and rude, above that.

Moloch Vein · Sep 27, 2007, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I'm just going to share my personal opinion. And my personal opinion is that Real Men don't use Blood Magic in PvE until they can use SV

Utaku · Sep 27, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

+1.
My girlfriend is MM and was from the first level. The fact is that asa you'll acess to runes and armor, as Draxynic said, you can have a +3 (helm + major which is not expensive) in Death. Yeah you won't have 10 minions, but you can reach really easily 6-7 minions with a higher level than mobs.
And against low levels and scarse mobs that is currently HUGE.
In addition, she was only doing Bone horrors so she didn't mind the energy and had low SR. The rest was attack skills.
MM in PVE has always been overpowered, and it is overpowered even with low level characters.
So Coloneh you're wrong and rude, above that.

I steamrolled through the first missions in Ascalon as a Lvl 8 minion master. Even if you only control 4 minions, they still deal a lot of damage on low lvl foes.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 28, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

so I'm surprised no one's mentioned this (or perhaps I missed it):

you can just buy two or three headpieces and run different builds. CRAZY I KNOW, BUT GIVE IT A TRY ITS REALLLLLLLLLLLLLY COOL.

jrk247 · Sep 28, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

What necro out there doesn't have a scar for Death, Blood, Curses, and SR? I thought they all did, must just be me. :/ I even have multiple scars of the same attributes.

wetsparks · Sep 28, 2007, 06:43 AM // 06:43

I don't, I have a hero to MM for me, so no death, and I don't find curses fun, so no curses, and no sour reaping (really, why bother), I just run as blood. I find it to be much funner.