Curse

Moloch Vein · Jan 02, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Teutonic Paladin · Jan 02, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Flesh Golem is a terrible elite. Feast for the Dead is inferior to BotM. Infuse Condition isn't worth a slot.

Moloch Vein · Jan 02, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

You have no idea what you're talking about. Please read the post again.

Flesh Golem might be a "terrible elite" but for a newbie, it's real easy to use. Blood of the Master isn't anything you want to put on a hero Minion Bomber. Infuse Condition certainly is worth a slot if you want your hero to be able to remove conditions.

Tatile · Jan 02, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

Flesh Golem is a terrible elite. Feast for the Dead is inferior to BotM. Infuse Condition isn't worth a slot.

This just makes me think the skill 'Masochism' is so appopriate.

As a basic Necromancer guide this should be ok. After grasping the basics someone can move onto another level of Necro'ing.

Squishy ftw · Jan 02, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Why not use [skill]martyr[/skill] over [skill]"It's just a flesh wound."[/skill] in that alternative build ?

Jagged · Jan 02, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Helpful, but I thought Reckless Haste was almost 'mandatory' for a SS build?

Moloch Vein · Jan 02, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Why not use [skill]martyr[/skill] over [skill]"It's just a flesh wound."[/skill] in that alternative build ?

IJAFW has no casting time and 1 second recharge; it's by far the better option. Also it condenses all conditions into one - it's actually decent enough with no Infuse active. However Martyr might be attractive in areas with truly massive partywide condition pressure.

Teutonic Paladin · Jan 02, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

This just makes me think the skill 'Masochism' is so appopriate.

As a basic Necromancer guide this should be ok. After grasping the basics someone can move onto another level of Necro'ing.

Could you understand the finer principles of nuclear physics without understanding the basic nature of an atom?

Or, for that matter, Phenomenalism without understand philosophical epistemological arguments?

(Don't ask, I'm tired)

I think I understand, we should use bad skills first so we can find out why they're bad. Those who can't figure it out will keep the skills so we can find bad players and kick them out of our groups!

You can make builds better without making them more complicated and comparing nuclear physics to Guild Wars is stupid.

Moloch Vein · Jan 02, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagged

Helpful, but I thought Reckless Haste was almost 'mandatory' for a SS build?

It isn't "mandatory". The discussion on Reckless is long-winded. Suffice to say it's a very, very energy-intense skill which isn't incredibly strong in general PvE play without including some sort of trigger-on-miss effects. For anti-hex draining, group farming... sure. It is noted, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin

I think I understand, we should use bad skills first so we can find out why they're bad. Those who can't figure it out will keep the skills so we can find bad players and kick them out of our groups!

You can make builds better without making them more complicated.

The "common" replacements for the FG elite is Order of Undeath and Aura of the Lich, and both of those are noted as possible replacements. I'm not going to recommend that a newbie run Order of Undeath and sac himself to death the very first time he tries a decent MM build. Neither do I recommend AoTL if he's going to run into a life-stealing area and get trashed faster than you can say "Angorodon". Flesh Golem is an excellent crutch for a new MM. If you're running normal PvE play that doesn't involve tank-n-spank mechanisms and doesn't involve upper-10% players, he might even possibly save your life.

As for your other skill notes, they show nothing more than a lack of reading comprehension.

ZenRgy · Jan 03, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

You should put more emphasis on how terrible Life Transfer is. Good guide, I'd mention that [skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill] and Defile are good for some nice direct damage spells (that destroy derv mobs).

kel77 · Jan 03, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Moloch, great guide for a new necro, don't let any of these guy's bs bother you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

Could you understand the finer principles of nuclear physics without understanding the basic nature of an atom?

Or, for that matter, Phenomenalism without understand philosophical epistemological arguments?

(Don't ask, I'm tired)

Way to grab the dictionary and try to impress.

-Makai- · Jan 03, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Some pretty good advice there. How's about a damage build revolving around Icy Veins and/or Putrid Bile? It's a lot of fun.

Also, I would recommend using Putrid Flesh as a possible substitute for Feast of the Dead or Taste of Death. Death Nova + Putrid Flesh is a pretty nasty condition combo.

Tatile · Jan 03, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by kel77

Way to grab the dictionary and try to impress.

My brain is a dictionary? Wow! I had no idea!

Sorry for my earlier post, Moloch, it seems to have distracted from your post. I didn't mean to, my analogies were just a bit... off. I guess being interested in science and philosophy and using that in my posts seems to make me an arsehole in this community. How sad. I shall the edit the post for you.

Moloch Vein · Jan 03, 2008, 09:59 AM // 09:59

No need to be aggressive with each other, methinks. When it comes to me I just have a slight problem with people spewing standard-Guru advice, picked up from some supposedly-elite poster, without paying any attention to the concept or the specific builds the skills are used in. That's not creative.

Putrid Flesh is a nice spell for a minion bomber, it slipped. I'll add it.

Fuzzy Taco · Jan 03, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

thank god we finally have one of these.

improved on, then stickied imo.

one quick note: for that 55 build, lower Soul Reaping to 1+3 and change Prot to 10 and Healing to 8. with the update, you now get the same pips of healing at 8 for mending + HB that you do at 9.

otherwise, this is going to be very useful, and hell, maybe we shouldn't sticky it. if it keeps getting bumped... people don't read the stickies anyway.

upier · Jan 03, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Some nice tips there.
Some not so nice - but it's not going to be my funeral running around with sup runes (especially in PvP!).

Just one suggestion.
When running /mo - Protective Spirit - it being one of the most broken skills in the game - is a SUPERB choice for your skill-bars! Not only will it help greatly in reducing the pressure of monks (in terms of it not being self-cast only!), it's just a superb option for a skill on a class that will sac their hp (not in terms of preventing the sacrifice damage of course, but rather in terms of the character having a safety net!) and having paper-like armour!
The monk secondary also opens the way for some hex/condition removal which is just superb to have on a class with nearly unlimited energy!

Ohh and keep in mind (since this should be more beginner oriented and I didn't see it anywhere) - if using these builds on heroes - Heal Area or AEcho aren't the best option to throw on their skillbar.

Turbobusa · Jan 03, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Would be good to have a note on necrosis. I disagree on defile/desacrate enchantements, those are bad skills with an awfull recharge. Direct damage is blood magic anyway, and that's not the main role of a necro.

Olim Chill · Jan 03, 2008, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

even Deathly Swarm.

An undervalued direct damage skill, understandibly. However, with a 40/40 weapon set, it's a handy offensive tool for Death Magic builds. A guilty pleasure of mine, perhaps.

Quote:

or Putrid Bile? It's a lot of fun.

Yeah, I like Putrid Bile. With 12 + Death Magic it drains your target quickly, with good nearby damage at the end. It can effectively expedite your 'first kill'.

boogerboy72 · Jan 03, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

you should add sabs hero builds, they are fantastic

Tatile · Jan 03, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogerboy72

you should add sabs hero builds, they are fantastic

Oh, that they are. If playing as a Necromancer with those builds, I'd suggest running as the Spiteful Spirit Necro, it being my personal preference (all those yellow numbers are fanastic). Having a Defensive Anthem Paragon with a few spear skills makes it even more fun, but then again I need more Para skills on my account, which would probably make it work better (that's a whole other, non-Necro thread though).