Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Feb 11, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

So you fail to spike, then decide to remedy that three seconds later by doing 80 damage that might or might not have killed the target otherwise...

...Is that still called spiking?

I suppose Eviscerate, Axe Rake, Exe. Strike, would be the spike already, but if I did factor in a quick double spam of Touch of Agony [10 blood], it'd be like an 'after-spike' if there is such a term lol.

But as was mentioned before, a foe that puts up some strong defenses near death, such as blocking, ward, block enchant, or maybe inflicts you with Blind, is the reason why an extra 80 damage could finish.

Now if people complain that it's not enough damage, then I suppose an unblockable 160 damage through two touches @ 1e. each would be 'fair right'? Yeah, I wish... ^_^

LightningHell · Feb 11, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

The point isn't in there isn't enough damage; 'after-spikes' are quite useless as spikes are by definition compressed damage so that the opposing defense cannot react before the target dies. If your target didn't die in the spike, good luck trying to kill anything with an 'after-spike' - unless the opposing monk is has an uber connection like me, and ends up casting Spirit Bond on himself due to lag. If you were including it in the spike, then it'd be a different argument altogether, although that turns out to be unfavorable as well.

Either way, putting a skill on your bar solely to kill opponents who are going to die anyway is a waste of a skillslot. Putting two on your bar is even worse.

And why Axe Rake?

Dr Strangelove · Feb 11, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The point isn't in there isn't enough damage; 'after-spikes' are quite useless as spikes are by definition compressed damage so that the opposing defense cannot react before the target dies. If your target didn't die in the spike, good luck trying to kill anything with an 'after-spike'

That's not entirely true, most caster spikes have some sort of after spike. Old school bloodspike, for example, spiked with shadow strike and afterspiked with vamp gaze. FC air spiked with lightning orb and afterspiked with lightning strike.

It serves a couple purposes - you get a second shot at a kill within a second, so there likely won't be much prot, and you drain the infuser's energy further.

However, for warriors an attack skill is usually the afterspike - Eviscerate spikes, executioner's afterspikes and activates the deep wound.

LightningHell · Feb 12, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

In my interpretation, I'd say that the vamp gaze and lightning strike 'afterspike' is considered to be part of the spike. If they were afterspikes, then certainly most-if not all-spiking mechanisms currently seeing play would have such an 'afterspike'.

But what I think he's talking about is more similar to LOrb->LStrike, noticing the target isn't dead, then trying to cast Lightning Hammer upon realization.

If he meant it as part of a spike, it'd be a different argument altogether.

Crom The Pale · Feb 12, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Put simply the dmg output of these skills is far to small to concider it for a killing attack, weather in a spike or after the fact.

If your desperate for an extra attack that has armor ignoring dmg then you have plenty of war attacks, both adren and energy, that can not be blocked and will deal armor ignoring dmg.

The only real exception I can find to this is when fighting the undead as a war/monk then a few smiting skills can deal out more dmg then standard war attacks.

The dmg/cost ratio for necro skills simply falls short of being effective on any war even at 1energy+hp sacrifice.

Moloch Vein · Feb 18, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

The DD blood spells do too little damage. That's all.

The damage of these skills should be increased to compensate for the huge sac cost.

Yukito Kunisaki · Feb 19, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The point isn't in there isn't enough damage; 'after-spikes' are quite useless as spikes are by definition compressed damage so that the opposing defense cannot react before the target dies. If your target didn't die in the spike, good luck trying to kill anything with an 'after-spike' - unless the opposing monk is has an uber connection like me, and ends up casting Spirit Bond on himself due to lag. If you were including it in the spike, then it'd be a different argument altogether, although that turns out to be unfavorable as well.

Either way, putting a skill on your bar solely to kill opponents who are going to die anyway is a waste of a skillslot. Putting two on your bar is even worse.

And why Axe Rake?

Axe Rake covers Deep Wound. Axe Rake keeps foes close to you. Axe rake does what a warrior should do I thought.

Keep foes close so you can keep swinging like a madman. Keeping Deep Wound on your foe is good, unless they're spamming Restore Condition but even then, it's the only snare for an axe user isn't it?

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 19, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

it's the only snare for an axe user isn't it?

[skill]desperation blow[/skill] [skill]drunken blow[/skill] [skill]you're all alone![/skill] Do these count? Not that desperation and drunken blow could be relied on. Also, You're all alone! is situational.

Savio · Feb 19, 2008, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Axe Rake covers Deep Wound. Axe Rake keeps foes close to you. Axe rake does what a warrior should do I thought.

If you need to cover Deep Wound, you're doing it wrong. If you need another skill to keep your target close to you after the Deep Wound, you're doing it wrong. Do you people not know about Shock and Bull's Strike?

LightningHell · Feb 19, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Deep Wound is applied to create a quick spike of -100 health (the 20% doesn't apply, because if 20% is actually smaller than 100 then you probably don't need to worry about killing anyway). Covering a Deep Wound implies that your Deep Wound lasts long enough - i.e. the target lives long enough - that it can actually be removed. Furthermore, no one gives a damn about a DW that got stuck on a target that got protted seconds ago.

Snaring after a spike, or should the target run, should not be a problem with Bull's Strike and Shock.

A clarification to my previous post: I think it's pretty obvious why using a Necromancer touch skill is abysmally bad as part of a Warrior spike, so I won't bother.

Again...lol at Axe Rake.