Curse

Super Igor · May 23, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Heya guys,

My "Igorway" didnt get you a right impression (I know...they are smiting Monks

) so here is something else [brace yourselves]:

~~~Defensive Sabway (variant)~~~

Basically it is just a variant of Sabway but ith better defensive and healing capabilities going from prots and overpowered aweasomesauce healing of [word of healing].
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[build name="WoH Nec" box build prof=N/Mo heal=12 prot=10 soul=8+1+1][signet of lost souls][word of healing][heal party][cure hex][dwayna's sorrow][protective spirit][aegis][vengeance][/build]

This character provides all the much needed support to the party through fast casting, heling, rechrging [word of healing] and some prot spells, party healing goes from highly spammable [heal party] and newly improved AI on [dwaynas sorrow] that also provides a large heal on this level of healing prayers. This allows this character to handle high pressures applyed on the team o problem making it very usefull in hard 4man HM areas like Post Searing Ascalon.
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[build name="Bomber" box build prof=N/Rt deathm=12+1+3 soul=12+1][signet of lost souls][Jagged Bones][animate bone minions][animate shambling horror][death nova][feast for the dead][infuse condition][foul feast][/build]

This character is responsible for most damage the party deals, it bombs easy to get hold of in large numbers, fast dieing [animate bone minions] and resilient [animate shambling horror] who are potentially two minions in one, replcing themselves with 1 or 2 Jagged Horrors on their death without preventing and filling holes in the meat shield. All of these ever dieng exploding minions have an aweasome synergy with [dwaynas sorrow], providing huge heals on their death and creating the ever important synergy in the team. Removes all conditions from the party now.

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[build name="Feast SS" box build prof=N/Rt Curses=12+1+1 chan=10 soul=8+1 rest=3][signet of lost souls][SS][reckless haste][barbs][enfeebling blood][splinter weapon][rip enchantment][flesh of my flesh][/build]

This is the main ource of making mobs kamikazee and amplify the minion wall's damage, this character is also responcible for making the whole tream clear of conditions by transferring all of them to himself at very fast rates making only one target to be clensed of conditions, health and energy gain increases his surviveability as a hard resser and solves energy issues from igh EC spells like [SS] ot pammable [barbs].
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The team worked great for me....now its time for you to bash it!

Breakfast Mc Rit · May 23, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Looks like something I'll be trying out. One thing I was confused over is how the skill description for Foul Feast says one thing here (Steal 5..25..32 health from target foe for each Condition...) and another (transfer conditions) on wiki.

miskav · May 23, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

It's the transfer condition, Breakfast.
The bbcode isn't updated =/

Ferret Deathsquad · May 23, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Looks like something fun to try. Dumb question, Is it only the three Nerco or do I need other people to come along?

miskav · May 23, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

On the N/Mo, I'd say dismiss condition or whatever removal you want over SoA.
The foul feaster will have them all on him anyway.

obsidian ectoplasm · May 23, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Will try this out

DarkSpirit · May 23, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

I think the weakest link (i.e. most likely the first one to die) would be your Feast SS since he has the sac skills and conditions on him without condition removal from him. Replace FOMF with DPS?

You dont really need Animate Shamblings, minions would be sufficient for your bomber.

No BOTM? Better move from mob to mob fast before your minions die off.

CoonerTheRed · May 23, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I think the weakest link (i.e. most likely the first one to die) would be your Feast SS since he has the sac skills and conditions on him without condition removal from him. Replace FOMF with DPS?

You dont really need Animate Shamblings, minions would be sufficient for your bomber.

No BOTM? Better move from mob to mob fast before your minions die off.

agreed... I'd move Animate Shamblings -> BotM, SoA -> Spotless Soul/dismiss, and Flesh -> DPS. I'm intruiged by Dwayna's Sorrow... could be fantastic with a group like this if it's used properly. Will have to check it out, looks fun, and probably slightly more self-sufficient than standard sab-way in 4-man areas.

I'm also concerned with the monk burning through energy trying to heal minions...

DarkSpirit · May 25, 2008, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Igor, I mixed it and formed this, with good test results in HM as a sabway variant:

[WoH Heal Protect;OANDYYzvOakPiRb6XPCIV1dC]

[WoF Splinter Curse;OAhkYgHcoIqU1GGTZgdwuDjYVVyF]
Replace Weapon of Fury with SS if you prefer.

[Jagged MM;OABCUsx0SVVAaAegC4iQCYVF]

Tyla · May 25, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

I mainly prefer using FF and Plague Sending on my SS changed for SoLS and Defile Defenses on my Curses hero, Dark.

And ever since I started using Turret Ranger in PvE again, I removed Splinter Weapon for Mark of Pain. (I stopped using BHA, so no volley...)

AOE PEWPEW!

DarkSpirit · May 25, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I mainly prefer using FF and Plague Sending on my SS changed for SoLS and Defile Defenses on my Curses hero, Dark.

Plague sending is meh. By the time you FF and send your conditions across, they dont last for long anyway. Defile Defenses punishes for 100+ armor ignoring damage each time they block an attack (including minion attacks).

Quote:

And ever since I started using Turret Ranger in PvE again, I removed Splinter Weapon for Mark of Pain. (I stopped using BHA, so no volley...)

AOE PEWPEW!

Heroes dont use Mark of Pain well. The best target for Mark is on a boss (or monk) surrounded by other monsters, without casting barbs on the same target so that the target will last longer for Mark AoE damage. Heroes just dont know how to use it well.

Tyla · May 25, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I've actually had quite the opposite with it be honest. (Mark of Pain)

And I usually micro my SS though.

DarkSpirit · May 25, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I've actually had quite the opposite with it be honest. (Mark of Pain)

If they do work, then it is probably by luck. When you cast Mark on a target, you actually dont want to kill that target fast and waste Mark, so you dont want to have Mark and Barbs on the same target, if there are still enemies near it.

At the same time, you want your physical attackers to hit the marked target with, preferably, low damage but fast attacks. This would trigger AoE armor ignoring damage around the target. Then when everything has died around the target, or Mark expired, or the target ran off, switch to Barbs and kill that target off. That is the best way to use Mark of Pain.

Tyla · May 25, 2008, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Why would you want a physical attacker with low damage in the first place?

If you are using Mark, the target would be needing to be hit anyway.

To hit them, you must be killing them and if you don't hit them, MoP does nothing. The only way you can get so much for so little is using casters with a spear.

DarkSpirit · May 25, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Why would you want a physical attacker with low damage in the first place?

If you are using Mark, the target would be needing to be hit anyway.

To hit them, you must be killing them and if you don't hit them, MoP does nothing. The only way you can get so much for so little is using casters with a spear.

The [[Mark of Pain] target has to remain alive for as long as possible. If you kill the Marked target too fast (e.g. by having [[barbs] on it also) before the enemies around it die off, then you wasted your Mark of Pain and have to wait 20s before it recharges. The purpose of MoP is to kill the rest of the enemies surrounding your target fast. It works better if the boss is a caster (e.g. a Rit) so it stays at one spot, with other caster monsters and spirits around it.

This is how MoP synergizes well with fiends (due to their combined physical ranged attacks that come in very quickly on the target), just make sure you dont use barbs on the same target until the rest of the surrounding enemies have died off from Mark AoE damage.

Tyla · May 25, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Ah well, either way, when I've finished off target A (MoP'd target), the rest of the mob is almost dead aswell.

Depending on how heavy my gunning power is.

DarkSpirit · May 25, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ah well, either way, when I've finished off target A (MoP'd target), the rest of the mob is almost dead aswell.

Depending on how heavy my gunning power is.

Then your MoP target dies too fast and you are not optimizing it. Heroes dont choose the MoP target well, unless you micro manage. They can choose to MoP a running warrior than a sitting caster. They also tend to kill the MoP target too fast, with barbs and other hexes, before the rest have died which is why I dont equip them with it.

shru · May 25, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I agree with Dark on FF+Infuse condition on the MM, but I have to say, Tyla is right about MoP. It's too good to pass up as a phys character. Heros may not use it to it's best effect without heavy micro, but even a poorly placed MoP has potential for insane damage, well worth it even if the target is barbs'd and near only 1-2 other enemies.
(I'm also quite partial to bringing back the curses necro when running sab's now since the rebuff to turret rangers soley because of MoP.)

DarkSpirit · May 25, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I agree with Dark on FF+Infuse condition on the MM, but I have to say, Tyla is right about MoP. It's too good to pass up as a phys character. Heros may not use it to it's best effect without heavy micro, but even a poorly placed MoP has potential for insane damage, well worth it even if the target is barbs'd and near only 1-2 other enemies.
(I'm also quite partial to bringing back the curses necro when running sab's now since the rebuff to turret rangers soley because of MoP.)

The placement of MoP has to be right, otherwise it can be quite useless and if the MoP target dies too quickly, it is going to be useless too.

With physical characters, there are already alot of skills from the curses necro that are attractive, even without MoP. You have Barbs, Enfeebling Blood, Rigor Mortis, Weaken Armor, Rip Enchantment, SoLS, and a Res. That is already 7 skills with your choice of an Elite. You also want to fit in, where possible, Splinter Weapon, maybe even Weapon of Fury. If you have SY! you may also want to add Order of Pain, Dark Fury, and healing, protection, condition management, and maybe even hex management. How many skill slots do we have left for Mark of Pain? In any case, it is all personal preference but I dont see any good reason to replace any of these useful skills, which heroes can use correctly, with MoP, which needs you to micro manage during battle.

Also, you dont need to be a physical character to use Mark of Pain successfully. I have been using it with my curse necro with Barbs, MoP, and other curses on her own bar (so I can control their casting) with a fiend hero MM. That works well enough for me. If you really want to bring MoP, it is easier to put it in your own skill bar than to manage the hero during battle.

Super Igor · May 25, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

[build name="WoH Nec" box build prof=N/Mo heal=12 prot=10 soul=8+1+1][signet of lost souls][word of healing][heal party][cure hex][dwayna's sorrow][protective spirit][aegis][vengeance][/build][build name="Bomber" box build prof=N/Rt deathm=12+1+3 soul=12+1][signet of lost souls][Jagged Bones][animate bone minions][animate shambling horror][death nova][feast for the dead][infuse condition][foul feast][/build][build name="Feast SS" box build prof=N/Rt Curses=12+1+1 chan=10 soul=8+1 rest=3][signet of lost souls][SS][reckless haste][barbs][enfeebling blood][splinter weapon][rip enchantment][flesh of my flesh][/build]

Update(!): Added MOAR VENGEANCE!!!!!!!!, changed Minion Bomber bar keeping [feast for the dead] as it has an aweasome synergy with [jagged bones] will do more testing on [animate shambling horror], added [infuse condition] + [foul feast] combo after all thanks to DarkSpirit, made slight changes to [SS] bar added [splinter weapon]. Enjoy, seems to cover all of original Sabway's weaknesses now.