Curse

Rathgar · Jun 18, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Hello all,

My first post in the Necro forums.

I have a new level 20 Necro and plan to run it only has an SS damage toon when my guild party has too many monks (my primary). I’ve looked at all the necro skins offered and found the ideal 20/20 wand/focus sets lacking in the “Wow, those look great!” department. I’ll sacrifice the “ideal” weapon set up for a good looking staff. I’ve got it down to two: Tormented or Charr Staff. Anyway, if I’m running a standard SS build and need to know what would be the optimum staff seet up? Curses or Soul Reaping? They both come with a standard HSR. Then what? HCT inscription with a staff wrapping of?

I look forward to your replies.

Chthon · Jun 18, 2008, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Well, bearing in mind that dual 20/20 would be unquestionably better, you'd probably do best with a 20 HCT head, 20 HCT inscription, and a +5 AL wrapping. (Curses-linked, obviously.)

Moloch Vein · Jun 19, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

I'd prefer 20HCT*2 + +1/20 for the Curses staff.

The SR staff should be +30hp+30hp+5e^50. Every necromancer should have such a staff.

jiggles · Jun 19, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

i agree with moloch's first line. but not the second

Tyla · Jun 19, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Adept Curse Staff of Enchanting with a 20% HCT inscription.

A 40/40 set is more favourable.

Moloch Vein · Jun 19, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

I can't really see the need for the enchanting mod for a "general" curses staff.

The point with the "second line" is that it's a staff that will work with any build you care to bring, since if you don't invest at least 9 including rune in soul reaping on a necromancer, you're a retard.

Tyla · Jun 19, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

What is the point in a staff if you're not taking it's main advantage of a 20% enchant mod then?

I agree that it sucks under some circumstances, but there is really no mod on a staff that can be so favourable so you might aswell take 20% enchant.

And about the SR staff - if you're going for those bonuses you might aswell buy a defensive set as you also get more armour. Yes, it can cost a bit more, but weaponswapping is key no matter what build you are running.

Stormlord Alex · Jun 19, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Curses-linked staff. Adept head, 20% HCT inscription, Dragonslaying/Demonslaying/Pruning wrapping - the first two mods are simply the best, and the last?
It's PvE. If you're sacrificing functionality for aesthetics regardless, you might as well have a mod that sounds cool. And a weedkiller staff is pro.

Moloch Vein · Jun 19, 2008, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

What is the point in a staff if you're not taking it's main advantage of a 20% enchant mod then?

I agree that it sucks under some circumstances, but there is really no mod on a staff that can be so favourable so you might aswell take 20% enchant.

And about the SR staff - if you're going for those bonuses you might aswell buy a defensive set as you also get more armour. Yes, it can cost a bit more, but weaponswapping is key no matter what build you are running.

Well, I just don't think that an enchanting upgrade would be very meaningful on a curses necromancer that is normally not using any enchantments to speak of anyway. If I want an enchantment upgrade I go with a spear. Well, as a matter of fact, I always go with a spear. Anyway, it's not like it matters too damn much.

I would like to qualify the previous statement. There are definitely builds that do not benefit from +60hp.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 19, 2008, 02:28 AM // 02:28

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Modti%27s_Depravation

The stats on that are pretty much exacly what I'd want if I had to use a curses staff.

Carinae · Jun 19, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

I'm sorry, I had to...

jiggles · Jun 19, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

the part of the second line i dont agree with is 'every necromancer should have one' i dont think you should ever run a build is you dont have the right req staff for it. and just so you know i always have more than 9 in soul reaping.

Moloch Vein · Jun 19, 2008, 01:45 PM // 13:45

It's just a convenience. I'm not implying you're an idiot. A high health staff is always nice to have, for builds you don't commonly run, and is also very good for some builds that I often run (N/Rt healer f.ex.)

Rathgar · Jun 19, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

I'm sorry, I had to...

With 2xHCT, does this increase the chance to ... 33%? What's the math on this?

You all have made some great suggestions and got me to thinking about having only one HCT 20% mod. 80% of the time this staff is doing nothing for you. Would it be more benficial on a staff to have 2x Health +30 and use two majors (SR + Curses or whatever)? 2 majors costs -70 Health + 60 HP (fortitude mods on the staff) = -10 Health. This could easily be overcome by insignias and a Sup Rune of Vigor. The question now is, does the increased attribute points in SR & Curses (from 2 majors) give you more of an advantage every time you cast any spell rather than using only miniors and hoping to get an advantage only 20% of the time or going with the above metioned staff with a slightly greater chance of HCT?

Is there a good thread on the forum that discusses the specific pros/cons of a SS Necro using minor, major or superior runes and the added dmg/benifits? I know all about HM and foes going for the lowest HP character (that can be countered). I guess I'm asking for quantitative data on the differances between having 14,15, or 16 in an attribute vs. the slightly lower or base HP. For example in the extreme using 2 superior runes - 150 HP + 50 SRoV + 60HP (staff) + 40 Survivor insigs = 0 There's no loss in HP but will the advantage of having two 16 attributes be > base HP?

Tyla · Jun 19, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

If you want more health simply use a defensive set.

Using a HCT mod, even with chances, it's quite powerful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Well, I just don't think that an enchanting upgrade would be very meaningful on a curses necromancer that is normally not using any enchantments to speak of anyway. If I want an enchantment upgrade I go with a spear. Well, as a matter of fact, I always go with a spear. Anyway, it's not like it matters too damn much.

Staves > martials for enchanting mods as you get HCT chance. Simple as.

Quote:

I would like to qualify the previous statement. There are definitely builds that do not benefit from +60hp.

Then simply stick with your casting set.

Carinae · Jun 19, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathgar

With 2xHCT, does this increase the chance to ... 33%? What's the math on this?

Mod 1: Chance of Success = 20%.

Mod 2: Chance of Success = 16%. (assuming Mod 1 failed)

So you have a 36% chance of either one proccing seperately. There is an additional 4% chance of the BOTH proccing (which gives quarter-cast time)

You also have the HRT mod proccing 20% of the time (independantly of the others) ...plus... 30hp 100% of the time.

Moloch Vein · Jun 19, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Staves > martials for enchanting mods as you get HCT chance. Simple as.

The reason for choosing a spear and focus over a staff for enchanting mods is a higher unconditional energy if needed, an additional physical damage source and an option to lengthen a condition of your choosing. For me, those are more important considerations.

Carinae · Jun 19, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The reason for choosing a spear and focus over a staff for enchanting mods is a higher unconditional energy if needed,

Eh, 2e. If everything else is equal, then yes. Otherwise, that second HCT is likely more useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

an additional physical damage source

Not convinced. My staff deals damage, and I meet the req for it. I probably don't meet the req for a spear.

Show me Master of Damage stats indicating that an un-req'd spear deals more damage than a req'd staff. Don't rig the test.

(I'm actually curious about this.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

and an option to lengthen a condition of your choosing.

This is a valid point, but it's pretty specialty oriented. You need the right build and the right mobs for this to matter.

Moloch Vein · Jun 19, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Eh, 2e. If everything else is equal, then yes. Otherwise, that second HCT is likely more useful.
[...] My staff deals damage, and I meet the req for it. I probably don't meet the req for a spear.

Show me Master of Damage stats indicating that an un-req'd spear deals more damage than a req'd staff. Don't rig the test.

(I'm actually curious about this.)

The +5e on the spear is unconditional. It's a minor consideration but it means that the healer isn't suddenly going to drop 5e when he needs to heal himself.

We're talking about a physical damage source here, not doing base damage (which is terrible, for any weapon.) My spear will deal around 30 armor ignoring damage plus 42 to adjacent whenever I feel like using it; the same can hardly be said about my staff. Physical weaponry synergizes with Barbs, Mark of Pain, Order of Apostasy, Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire (and Well of Ruin as terrible as that is.)

Spears also have a higher attack rate than staves, if needed.

I know that you actually know this but you don't seem to give it thought, and I'm spelling it out for the benefit for people reading this thread.

Carinae · Jun 19, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

I know that you actually know this but you don't seem to give it thought, and I'm spelling it out for the benefit for people reading this thread.

Damn. Busted playing devil's advocate.