Curse

Lord Larxes · Jul 25, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Just out of curiousity, what would you guys do for a hero Minion Master build? Any help or ideas would be helpful...thanks.

Shayne Hawke · Jul 25, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

The Campfire has their own subforum for Heroes and AI. Sab has created a very effective set of builds that contains a MM, found here.

Besides that, PvX has some different MM builds, including the Rt/N variant. Past that, it's just picking and choosing different skills you like.

gremlin · Jul 25, 2008, 08:05 AM // 08:05

The Necro Heroes are pretty good as an MM with a couple of exceptions I would use Jagged Bones if you have it and wouldn't use flesh Golem as the hero ai doesn't use it well.
Death Nova can be a problem too as they will use it but also use Blood of the master to keep them alive.

If you make it pretty simple they will do fine and keep a group of minions 8 to 10 going most of the time.
You can run 2 MM heroes as well if you want lots of minions for some reason.

So Jagged bones any 3 or 4 minion skills Blood of the master and whatever else you like.

Problems I find
Creatures with shock and aftershock seem to decimate the minions and the hero MM doesn't use blood of the master anywhere near fast enough to keep them going.

The Hero also lags behind healing his minions so pause frequently and wait for the heal.
Just watch the MM health bar as it drops when he heals them.

payne · Jul 25, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Larxes

Just out of curiousity, what would you guys do for a hero Minion Master build? Any help or ideas would be helpful...thanks.

I run normally (in HM anyway)

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill](that minion skill that raises 2minions in one go - cant remember the name of it - summon minions? lol[skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]rend enchantments[/skill][skill]warmongers weapon[/skill][skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

attributes DM: 11+2+1
SR: 10+1
C: 4ish?
resto: 3
channeling 8ish
<<<cant remember exact :P

Martin Firestorm · Jul 25, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gremlin

Death Nova can be a problem too as they will use it but also use Blood of the master to keep them alive.

Don't bring BoM, its better if they die. Dwayna's Sorrow is a nice option.

rick1027 · Jul 25, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

my problem is my mm casts death nova constantly on hero and henchmen and never raises minions when death nova on their bar

gremlin · Jul 25, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick1027

my problem is my mm casts death nova constantly on hero and henchmen and never raises minions when death nova on their bar

The hero Ai is quite limited but its good enough for a plain mm as I said before death nova and the flesh Golem are played badly.

Flesh Golem because the ai doesn't treat it as special so if it dies the hero mm just raises any minion.

Death nova it uses but still keeps using blood of the master, to make the death nova work you have to turn off blood of the master in fights and turn it back on for general movement.

Some hero builds need a certain amount of micro management others do not.

Turbobusa · Jul 25, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Those are minion bombers. Not that I don't prefer them but a MM tries to keep his army alive not charging and killing them

-Lotus- · Jul 27, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Those are minion bombers. Not that I don't prefer them but a MM tries to keep his army alive not charging and killing them

why would you want to do that? minions dont do any damage. blowing them up does actual damage.

vandevere · Jul 27, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

why would you want to do that? minions dont do any damage. blowing them up does actual damage.

From what I gather, minions make good meat shields...

BFG · Jul 27, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

The minion bomber's job is to create expendable minions that are enchanted with [[death nova]. These minions are not meant to be kept alive. Instead they are there to cause damage and a negative condition upon the enemy. Since heroes do much better with distributing [[death nova], the minion bomber build is great for them.

The standard minion master would use stronger minions and skills to heal their minions, along with some condition hexes if its feasible. Here, they would be more of a meat shield and skills like [[blood of the master] would be more practical.

I hope this clears up that matter, as there seems to be some confusion due to the different builds.

N1ghtstalker · Jul 27, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

[livia;OANDUslfOohqwSteEQwDKiqK]
god i love her <3

mrmango · Jul 27, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by vandevere

From what I gather, minions make good meat shields...

If you do bring BotM, they stay around until the next battle and get agro if you position the MM correctly. Then they quickly die off. And by them the enemies should die too.

Miska Bow · Jul 27, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Actually, MM Bomber hero is the swiss knife of my team. [Animate bone minions] [death nova][blood of the master] is the base of it.

To this you can add whatever suits what you're doing. For destroyers [Putrid Flesh]+[scourge healing] [discord]

Or you can set it as Rt for more healing or weapon spells you cant add to a Rt or N/Rt hero, Prot/smite monk or go Me for some interupt. heck!!! Your MM can almost serve you breakfast in bed if you want.

All you need to do is read wiki to know what you're up against, then experiement with skills that can counter what you need to kill.

Murmel · Jul 27, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

[jagged bones][death nova][animate bone minions][blood of the master]
Might add these skills for certain areas:[infuse condition][dark bond]

Voila ^^

gremlin · Jul 28, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

The mm build in pve is a great build especially in the early to mid game areas.

The damage output of a minion army is pretty unimportant they are there to be targets to cause the enemy to waste skills and block them in.

Mobs tend to scatter with the fighter types making straight for the party spell-casters and since our fighter types are trying to bring down their casters your more than a little vulnerable.

The 2 ways to use your minions are to throw them in as a general first wave which is ok but it can block your own fighters from getting to targets.
Or hold them back for use in defence against enemy fighters, both ideas work well enough to win most fights easily.

The point is the enemy is wasting skills like crazy on an army that's constantly being healed and replaced.
All the interrupts conditions and damage you would be receiving is going on minions.

Just as easy and incorrect to say that minions are useless because their damage output and targeting is bad as it is to say mesmers don't do anything in a fight.

Your focused too much on the obvious as opposed to the just as usefull less obvious causes for victory.

In the real world its called combined arms

DarkSpirit · Jul 28, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

why would you want to do that? minions dont do any damage. blowing them up does actual damage.

Actually minions, fiends in particular, can do very good armor ignoring AoE damage if used correctly with [[Mark of Pain]. The MM bomber is not the only viable MM build for HM. But the curse necro with MoP has to control it well. As you can also see, fiends have better targeting, even from a hero MM.

I quickly changed a few skills on my hero MM just to take this screenshot. Blanked out the skills to avoid team build confusion, because I was too lazy to change my entire team build at the last minute:

Olias is using a standard fiend MM build with BoTM and no Death Nova or Dwayna Sorrow.

-Lotus- · Jul 28, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Actually minions, fiends in particular, can do very good armor ignoring AoE damage if used correctly with [[Mark of Pain]. The MM bomber is not the only viable MM build for HM. But the curse necro with MoP has to control it well. As you can also see, fiends have better targeting, even from a hero MM.

thats mark of pain doing damage. last time a checked, mark of pain was not a minion.

DarkSpirit · Jul 28, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

thats mark of pain doing damage. last time a checked, mark of pain was not a minion.

MoP is triggering based on the physical attacks of Fiends. And after the surrounding monsters have all died off from MoP, I would switch to Barbs to finish the MoP target itself.

In this case, it is important to keep your expensive fiends alive, for damage, through BoTM.

BFG · Jul 28, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Are these fiends being used in conjunction with assorted minions? I have always worried about using fiends as they can draw attention to the back line occasionally, which is something we all try to avoid. Keep in mind that I'm not questioning the damage potential of fiends but am curious if you've had any unnecessary grief due to the fiends that will tend to park around your casters.