Curse

MercenaryKnight · Aug 08, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Well, killing off all your minions to make one strong super minion is kind of stupid. Especially since you can't even do it with a flesh golem. It seems like it's only viability would be to use a bone fiend with it for the ranged quicker attack (since all they get is health regen but no +armor or anything.

I guess it could be an alternative if theirs a place with little amounts of corpses. But still, the whole point of being a mm is to have a huge army of either minions/ horrors to bomb or tank, or fiends to stack damage with mark of pain.

I guess it would have been nice if minion degen actually capped at -10 so you could spam the skill on recharge and keep 1 minion alive forever, but I believe every minion will just keep adding more and more degen until it'll grow over the regen from the skill.

Raigne · Aug 08, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Guildie and I were discussing this. The best we could come up with is a perfectly timed minion bomb.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 08, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

I suppose, but you'd probably need it on a hero because targeting minions for a person is a pain.... Still would be a lot of hassle trying to set up and wait for death nova on everything then hit it. Would be better off just using halves casting recharge skills and the new vanguard sniper support hoping for huge damage.

Raigne · Aug 08, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I agree, unless there's some use I'm missing completely, it still doesn't appear to be good for much.

Also, the ambiguity of the condition worries me. I have yet to check if it affects minions summoned with jagged bones.

Hugh Manatee · Aug 08, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I suppose you could use it with a vamp horror, get a lot of health with each hit that it does as it attacks faster. Do we know if it completely kills off shambling Horrors(and the jagged horror's they turn into, or like above, if it has jagged bones from another source on it)

Bargamer · Aug 08, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

I just checked with my Minion Bomber build, after I capped it. With either a Bone Minion or Jagged Horror, with Jagged Bones on it, it kills the minion and lets Jagged Bones trigger. No idea on Shamblings.

Moloch Vein · Aug 08, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

The obvious choice is using this with a Vampiric Horror in a low-level PvP setting. This so-called "buff" ruined the skill for PvE use, while creating a cheap gimmick AB build. Order of Undeath PvP MM is now basically "Ranger w/ Pet". Make no mistake, it's STRONG. REAL strong. The horror will attack once every 2 seconds and do around 50-60 damage each hit, and have +40 health regeneration, which effectively makes Blood of the Master or ANY sacrificing skill superfluous - you simply recycle your friend when needed. This means the rest of the bar can be filled with other utility, other corpse exploits, and hexes/damage. If you can live without your self-heal from the vampiric horror and go with a Fiend, it will hit once per 1.25 seconds. That really isn't too bad.

Overall, while happy about Ursan finally getting some tough love, I'm very disappointed with the changes to the N skills. Several changes were made with the result still sucking arse. Most skills that really could use a change were left out.

AcousticMeanie · Aug 08, 2008, 07:39 AM // 07:39

When used any Shambling Horrors will be killed and pop back up as Jagged Horrors, that mechanic does not change just because of this skill.

I couldn't agree more than this skill is now just a low level PvP gimmick. It's been destroyed for PvE, especially considering the majority of people use MM's in tandem with a curse necro running Barbs and that you loose the entire meat shield concept.

Order of Undeath = fail

Magikarp · Aug 08, 2008, 07:48 AM // 07:48

minions only help against bosses with barbs on the target, and meh damage, so you could death nova all of the minis, OoU them, HUGE BOMB, and have Superman Minion help kill the boss :P

just an idea

Carinae · Aug 08, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

They ruined the single best MM elite for a cheap low-end PvP gimmick. The exclusion of FG is a dead giveaway for the PvP connection, because that's really the only time you'll have a chance to be in that situation. A super-FG wouldn't affect PvE at all, anyway.

Did they apply their precious PvP/PvE split?
No.

Did they pick a crappy DM elite for the change?
No, they picked the very best one for a human Fiend-based MM. Well Done.

Is there any silver lining? (Does the new functionality offer anything interesting?)
No, not really. ...and definitely not worth the loss of the previous OoU functionality.

Some Possibilities:
Massive Death Nova bomb (have fun setting that up)

Massive Dwayna's Sorrow party heal. (if you're popping ALL your minions for a party-heal....well, cya at the shrine.)

Vamps+OoU (as Moloch suggests) for AB.

Shamblings work with OoU (the Jaggeds spawn successfully)

You can target the minion that survives.

-Makai- · Aug 08, 2008, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Ahhh...so this is why they changed [consume soul].

A shame, really. I always wanted to try the old version.

Moloch Vein · Aug 08, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

I believe that if this elite is to be useful for PvE again, it would have to be split. Different options exist:

1: Return previous skill state for PvE. By far easiest.
2: #1, plus buff. Reduce cost to 5. Reduce health loss to 1% per hit.
3: Keep new skill state, and buff. All your minions die except 1...3...4? Minions gain +33% attack speed, 24 armor, +x...y damage and have a set +x...y health regeneration.

As a side note, I think the new config is too "petty" even for PvP as it is now. It would be better to keep 1...2...3 minions and have +(DM) damage on them all. After all, a MM is supposed to control minionS, and this would make the builds less one-dimensional.

Finally, I do believe Order of Undeath deserved a buff. It was very, very expensive. Other options (EBSOH) outclassed its effect without even being an elite.

jayce · Aug 08, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

It would be better to keep 1...2...3 minions

exactly what i was thinking (3) as soon as i read the new description. didn't even have to try out the changed version of order of undead to draw that conclusion.

Jayce Of Underworld

azizul1975 · Aug 08, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

yeah... i have to say the should revert OoU to the old version. its kinda useless now...

Turbobusa · Aug 08, 2008, 09:10 AM // 09:10

I indeed like the 1...3 suggestion a whole lot better

Moloch Vein · Aug 08, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

The sexy part of the change is that the HP regen, the IAS and the damage boost are all non-removable. Make no mistake, it IS a super-buff, well, at least for that one minion.

Sleeper Service · Aug 08, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

minion degen is caped at 10 as well right? so with spells to transfer the masters pain to its super minion maybe its not so bad?

Moloch Vein · Aug 08, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

No, minion deegeration has no cap. Eventually the natural minion degeneration will supersede the +41(!) health regeneration from OoU. However, this will take some time.

cellardweller · Aug 08, 2008, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Is the selection of the final minion predictable?

njaguar · Aug 08, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

You can target the minion that survives.

I believe Carinae already clarified that you get to select the minion that survives.. unless I misinterpreted this.