Curse

Calista Blackblood · Dec 14, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

OoU is still the best for humans.

JB is still best for heroes.

I was answering a question that confused terminology.It's more than obvious that OoU belongs on a human and JB on a hero

Arkantos · Dec 14, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

It's not like AotL wasn't used and the change was to give it more play,there were AotL mm's all over AB and even FA.

AotL was used on shitter tanks who did nothing but piss people off. At least now it actually has a use.

Shadowmere · Dec 15, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

idk, the change is decent, but I don't think it was worth what we lost. It was about the only self protection spell necros had, and was the only spell that lowered sac costs.

the new function makes building up minion numbers much faster but it seems a bit silly, utilizing corpses was never a real problem anyways. imo this change should have been for some rit elite and used spirits a bit like togo's "call to the spirit realm" skill in the BMP.

what really puzzles me about this and the Order of Undeath changed back in august is that Anet seems determined to shake up minion mastery and yet consistantly igonores the most bland and (when faced with other elite options) useless elite, the Flesh Golem.

-Lotus- · Dec 15, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmere

what really puzzles me about this and the Order of Undeath changed back in august is that Anet seems determined to shake up minion mastery and yet consistantly igonores the most bland and (when faced with other elite options) useless elite, the Flesh Golem.

Anet understands their market. the flesh golem has an "intimidating" skin. (even thought it is just a re-skinned char) It doesnt matter what it does, the idiots who play this game will continue to use it.

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 15, 2008, 07:58 AM // 07:58

quite an interesting change. who hasn;t wanted to raise an entire bone army in one skill? would have been hilarious as hell if it had this functionality before minion caps were introduced. can you even imagine? =D i barely can. the thought makes me smile. =)

Akimb0 · Dec 15, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Can't see the point in the change. Really, how useful is it to have a MM who waits for the fight to be over before summoning minions? Otherwise you're not getting very much use out of it, unless you're raising a lot ( 5+ ) minions in one go. It's just another one of those changes which made a useful skill, pretty pointless. I like the idea, but in real gameplay terms it's not much use. As for the +1 Death Magic -_- wooo? how useless. The more retarded changes Anet make the less likely I am to come back to GW's.

Moloch Vein · Dec 15, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

They could have done so much more with this skill considering they made it an "animate-all" skill, which has never been done before.

Example:

Aura of the Lich
Elite Skill
25e 2c 45r
You animate a level x Bone Horror. For every corpse in earshot, your Bone Horror increases level by 1. If more than y corpses are in earshot, you animate a level z Dragon Lich instead. You have +2 Death Magic (45 seconds.)

Take it from there...

Brian the Gladiator · Dec 15, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Ill take it from there... theory crafting sucks.

The skill was overpowered in AB and thus recieved a fair nerf... period.

The Meth · Dec 15, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

How was it overpowered in AB? Whenever I came across a necromancer with lots of minions everyone in the party just ass raped the necro then ran away. If the MM has some awesome monk with them that manages to keep them alive against our whole group just nuke the minions. Either way the necro is either dead or his only useful ability is gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

They could have done so much more with this skill considering they made it an "animate-all" skill, which has never been done before.

Example:

Aura of the Lich
Elite Skill
25e 2c 45r
You animate a level x Bone Horror. For every corpse in earshot, your Bone Horror increases level by 1. If more than y corpses are in earshot, you animate a level z Dragon Lich instead. You have +2 Death Magic (45 seconds.)

Take it from there...

So... you want to be able to animate 11 bone horrors at a time with their levels something around 25-30? I'm sure that isn't overpowered at all.

Calista Blackblood · Dec 15, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Ill take it from there... theory crafting sucks.

The skill was overpowered in AB and thus recieved a fair nerf... period.

Skills aren't overpowered just because people aren't smart enough to bring counters for it.Alas [rend enchantments][rip enchantment]

It's like casting Meteor Shower without Glyph Of Swiftness then crying that Savage Shot is overpowered when it interrupts very easily

Bargamer · Dec 15, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I posted about it in the Rit forum: the new AotL rocks. Make sure your three SP Enchants are up, but especially Explosive Growth, get a Hero or two to slap Novas on all of the minions you got up, fire off AotL, out with the old/in with the new, glee over the explosions, then repeat. Vizunah Square was hilarious.

Theoretically, you can copy it as a Necro-main, but you'll deal less-to-none EG damage, the same Nova damage, and higher-leveled minions throughout.

Shadowmere · Dec 15, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

Anet understands their market. the flesh golem has an "intimidating" skin. (even thought it is just a re-skinned char) It doesnt matter what it does, the idiots who play this game will continue to use it.

Unfortunately it seems you're right, despite the many options that changing FG or adjacent skills would open up (points to sardelac suggestion for verata's sac) it seems it will forever be a skill for impressionable players who don't grasp the minions many many flaws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimb0

As for the +1 Death Magic -_- wooo? how useless.

That's actually one of the more useful applications of the skill, even if you don't catch a ton of corpses with it as long as you've got the enchant up all the minions you make will be a higher level; it's the same reason most MM's carry a +1/20% mod. It's about the only time an attribute increase will actually have a useful effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

The skill was overpowered in AB and thus recieved a fair nerf... period.

not really. It made a MM very durable yes, but usually only by stacking things like [dark bond] & [Mystic regeneration] all of which are vulnerable to anyone with enchant removal.

But as a general rule [verata's aura]>MMs

Xenomortis · Dec 15, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

They could have done so much more with this skill considering they made it an "animate-all" skill, which has never been done before.

Example:

Aura of the Lich
Elite Skill
25e 2c 45r
You animate a level x Bone Horror. For every corpse in earshot, your Bone Horror increases level by 1. If more than y corpses are in earshot, you animate a level z Dragon Lich instead. You have +2 Death Magic (45 seconds.)

Take it from there...

An interesting suggestion, but would that skill actually exploit a corpse? And what would you proposefor the Dragon Lich thing? - http://www.wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dragon_Lich ? If so, then +2 to DM seems a bit high, especially considering it doesn't seem to be an enchantment by your skill description.
But it is a more interesting proposal over what we have, I'm just trying to explore it further.

Arkantos · Dec 15, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

Skills aren't overpowered just because people aren't smart enough to bring counters for it.

So (insert any overpowered gimmick build here) wasn't overpowered, people just weren't smart enough to bring counters? Nice logic.

Xenomortis · Dec 15, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So (insert any overpowered gimmick build here) wasn't overpowered, people just weren't smart enough to bring counters? Nice logic.

No. The old AotL builds were hardly overpowerd - a single casting of [Rend Enchantments] or [Gaze of Contempt] rended those who used them almost defenseless. An overpowered build would be one where countering is either much more difficult to counter than it is to run, or where the counters are gimmicky and impractical for anything else.
Enchantment removal is fairly basic and a no-brainer to bring along.

Your logic is flawed, not Calista's.

Calista Blackblood · Dec 15, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So (insert any overpowered gimmick build here) wasn't overpowered, people just weren't smart enough to bring counters? Nice logic.

Oh please...You know all too well thats not what i'm saying

Anyone with half a brain knows its easy to counter a minion master (which is what is being discussed and not any other gimmick shit you want to throw into the mix.I really couldn't give a rats ass about the latest builds being ran in HA or GvG either)

[veratas aura][veratas gaze][rend enchantments][rip enchantment] Could all rend the old N/D AoL mm useless. In context of the N/D build that was all too common in AB,

Stupidity or outright arrogance in not bringing something to counter such a popular build,doesn't constitute it being overpowered

moko · Dec 15, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

fully agree with Calista on this one :P

anyways, as for the new Aotl, it's pretty odd.

the more of this you got, the more broken it turns out. pvp is the best example;

the more Aotl, the more minions to bomb. they just bodyblock everything and get blown up .. along with you.

for gvg, it's prolly really annoying, for ha it won't matter, minions will get blown up in aoe, and for ra .. well seriously, these things are only effective if your team is winning anyways so you get even more minions. :/ it's basically 3v4 and when you won anyways you get finally turn effective .. except there's nobody to kill anymore. seriously, stop using Aotl in RA, it's just so bad and boring to play against. :P

it's also fairly interesting to use on rit bombers but eh .. guess primary necs have better stuff to use than this, especially in PvE.

Arkantos · Dec 15, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

I didn't mean to say the AotL MM bar was overpowered. What I was trying to say was just because a build has a counter, it doesn't mean the build isn't overpowered. I wasn't targeting it at AotL, I was targeting the logic.

Also, since you two are so smart, please tell me how to get rend enchantments and gaze of contempt onto a bar that already needs two professions. Don't worry, I'll wait.

Calista Blackblood · Dec 15, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

I didn't mean to say the AotL MM bar was overpowered. What I was trying to say was just because a build has a counter, it doesn't mean the build isn't overpowered. I wasn't targeting it at AotL, I was targeting the logic.

Also, since you two are so smart, please tell me how to get rend enchantments and gaze of contempt onto a bar that already needs two professions. Don't worry, I'll wait.

It wasn't overpowered ever lol.

Nobody said that either gaze or rend had to be on a N/D nor that the scenario was a N/D vs N/D..Party sizes in gw start at two and work progressively to 12.Unbelieveable I know..Amazing what can be done with technology these days

Or in simple terms: AB=4 players 32 skills 4 primary and 4 secondary professions of which there are many combinations to begin with.Plenty of potential to slip enchantment hate onto a bar.

MrGuildBoi · Dec 15, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I wish there was a PvE version:

25/2/30
All corpses within earshot are exploited and you animate a level 1..14 random minion (Vampiric Horror, Bone Fiend, Bone Horror, or Jagged Horror) plus one random minion for each corpse exploited in this way. For 5...37 seconds, your Death Magic attribute is increased by +1.

So you can have different kinds of minions ;P A little OP I know.