Curse

EmpressOfFlame · Jan 14, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

This will be a little long, but I know and would love to hear from those "Necro experts" who are truly into creating/running the best builds possible, and I know some of you guys are heavily into this stuff

.

I've read everything to be read that I could find regarding different builds, and having been playing a few different Necro builds for the past 2 years, but there's a few things I just cant get right... or, perhaps more accurately, make better.

There are many elites, but I've found very few (and I've tried almost all at some point) to be truly effective in the "all around", as many have aspects that take away from their effectiveness in some way.

(Example: Weaken Knees is basically just another degen spell, as if your targets aren't moving, you might as well be running a degen build, and when they do move, the damage they take is very low... and the spell isn't even AoE, unless you Echo it...)

So, any in-depth info, details and advice would be very much appreciated.

*Note: secondaries for everything except SS builds I could suggestions for.

First and foremost...

1) Spiteful Spirit

What are actually some of the best suggestions for this, other than what's listed on Wiki or elsewhere?

I have three problems with an SS build: health management, offensive aspects and trying not to spread too many points across attributes in order to make an SS build more effective.

Since SS requires the target(s) to attack, and you end up almost "waiting" and using maybe one other offensive skill. Sure, they're taking damage every time they attack, but it's just not enough, and I just cant seem to figure out the best offensive skills to take to speed up killing.

Heath management is another issue. With points maxed in Curses, and needing at least 4 or 5 in Soul Reaping, I can get upwards of 10 in Blood Magic, but need the build to both heal and damage... enough to make it worth the energy it costs to cast them.

I made the "mistake" early on using Empathy in my build, and honestly, it caused a ton of damage along with SS, because I'd cast it on multiple targets. However, it spreads points across the board a bit much, and something such as Life Siphon just doesn't help enough with health, even when using Insidious Parasite.

So, currently, my SS build is "under construction", because I'm not sure what to run... Curses and Blood (for health and damage)? If so, what's the best run for a Curses (SS)/Blood build?

P.S.
I've run Defile Enchants with this build, and while it helps in massive AoE situations, unless you run it's duplicate (Desecrate Enchants) simultaneously, I'm not sure whether it would be worth it.

2) Feast of Corruption

I find this to be one of few elites in GW that seems worthwhile for a Necro, due to the powerful spiking damage. However, in order for it to be worthwhile, it almost seems like you have to Echo it and hit twice for truly massive damage, especially due to the insane recharge time of the spell.

Any suggestions on the best way to run a FoC build that really dishes it out, but allows for good energy management, health and further damage?

Being that FoC requires the target to get hexed, perhaps instead of echoing it, running other hexs that deal out degen or life-stealing would be more effective than echoing FoC? What would you suggest?

FoC steals health as well, but if you're not hurt and don't have the energy/it hasn't recharged when you really need it, you're up the creek without a paddle.

3) Discord

This seems similar to Feast of Corruption, though it requires being quick, as the target needs to be suffering from both a condition and hex in order to work. If they're already suffering from both, then I'd imagine hitting them with Discord would wreak serious havoc, but I'm not sure, as this is one build here I haven't run as of yet (have yet to cap it).

Is this truly a worthwhile skill to use? Since it obviously requires Curses and/or Death Magic in order to hex and inflict conditions, putting that all together right seems like it could lead to a really nasty dealer of damage.

"Epilogue"...

Basically, I tired of being an MM and SS eventually became my "baby", as well as my straight-out blood/degen build, which is pretty nasty. I'd like to run a better SS build that is far more effective then when using Empathy ( though I truly actually had a lot of luck with that build, but health and AoE were difficult otherwise...).

So, any suggestions on superior SS builds are definitely my priority, and I've not found anything worthwhile as of yet. Since Mes is my secondary for Echo, perhaps investing in Mes skills in an SS build would be different, but effective?

The other two builds referred to here, Feast of Corruption and Discord, I'm very curious about, and would love some input there are well for dealing out massive damage.

Advice on different secondaries for builds revolving around those skills would definitely be helpful.

Thanks much for your time, and much thanks to any "Necro elitists" who can help me further my Necro experiences

.

P.S.
I'm looking strictly for damage-dealing builds (including health/ene management, of course), and nothing regarding removal of enchantments etc.

TalanRoarer · Jan 14, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Well.. i know this isnt with any of the elites you asked for but :
Try searching MoP nuker on PvX wiki..

[Credit for the build goes to Moloch Vein]

If you can't find it .. off the top of my head i think its this:

16 Curses
10? Soul Reaping
8 Deadly Arts

Mark of Pain
Barbs
Recklass Haste
Optional
Assassin's Promise
Ebon Sin Support
By Urals Hammer
Mindbender

can be used without the eotn skills.. but less efective.. take 5-8 physicals and have fun blowing things up

.

PS: this is the highest damage dealing build ive seen in my 2 years of gws

Lord Of Blame · Jan 14, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Discord is great. You actually don't have to carry any attribute points in curses for a discord build to work, however if you are the only one running discord then I think its a waste. If you have yourself and 3 necro heroes then things die really quick. I use enfeeble or enfeebling blood (condition) and parasitic bond (hex), parasitic also gives a little heal when things die. There are many other condition and hexes available but these have quick cast and quick recharge with little attribute requirements. You could run 12 death, 12 soul rep (putting runes on these help alot), and a 3 in curses, that should do fine for a discord build you could also bring necrosis for a little more damage and you only need a hex or condition. My 2 cents is use discord. When I run a discord I put it on my 3 necro heroes and run a curses build for myself, instead of discord I take necrosis, that gives me more flexiblity to use SS and other curses. Sometimes I will even use blood magic and take SV, it just depends on where I'm at and what I'm doing. Good luck.

I Jonas I · Jan 15, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Combo #1:
Arcane Echo -> spiteful spirit -> Enfeebling blood -> Spiteful Spirit again

Combo #2
Ping a target -> Cast Mark of Pain on that target -> Cast Barbs on that target -> watch it die

Put those skills on a bar and you'll win.

warrior running · Jan 15, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Discord is nice

snaek · Jan 15, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

[spiteful spirit] is pretty useless when u can run sumptin like [mark of pain] instead

[feast of corruption] is pretty useless when u can run sumptin like [cry of pain] instead

[discord] is pretty nice, but only with support from ur team (ideally also runnin discord)

Calista Blackblood · Jan 15, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmpressOfFlame

1) Spiteful Spirit

What are actually some of the best suggestions for this, other than what's listed on Wiki or elsewhere?

I have three problems with an SS build: health management, offensive aspects and trying not to spread too many points across attributes in order to make an SS build more effective.

Should be 12+1+2 curses (at least) always.If you have monks why would you need health management? Nonetheless there is always [[hexers vigor]

Quote:

Since SS requires the target(s) to attack, and you end up almost "waiting" and using maybe one other offensive skill. Sure, they're taking damage every time they attack, but it's just not enough, and I just cant seem to figure out the best offensive skills to take to speed up killing.

[mark of pain][barbs]+physicals/minions

Quote:

Heath management is another issue. With points maxed in Curses, and needing at least 4 or 5 in Soul Reaping, I can get upwards of 10 in Blood Magic, but need the build to both heal and damage... enough to make it worth the energy it costs to cast them.

Soul reaping is far to low and dipping into blood is honestly the worst thing you can do ever.The healing is entirely minimal and really not worth bar slots for the minimal health gain back.

Quote:

I made the "mistake" early on using Empathy in my build, and honestly, it caused a ton of damage along with SS, because I'd cast it on multiple targets. However, it spreads points across the board a bit much, and something such as Life Siphon just doesn't help enough with health, even when using Insidious Parasite.

Yes it does spread attributes very far when [[empathy] isn't honestly a great addition to a curse bar.Life regen is never going to keep you alive nor is the caused degen really going to help you win a battle.If health is such an issue i'd start looking at hero monk or N/Rt bars for fatal flaws.As a base exmaple a curse build: 12+1+x Curses 12+xSR 3 Blood + [blood ritual]would be plenty to provide energy to those that need it.

Quote:

So, currently, my SS build is "under construction", because I'm not sure what to run... Curses and Blood (for health and damage)? If so, what's the best run for a Curses (SS)/Blood build?

Highly advisable to not do that.Curses is without doubt the most potent skill line which should be attributed and runed accordingly.Blood is generally useless which most will agree with.

Quote:

P.S.
I've run Defile Enchants with this build, and while it helps in massive AoE situations, unless you run it's duplicate (Desecrate Enchants) simultaneously, I'm not sure whether it would be worth it.

If enchantments are so prominent in most cases it would be better to remove them entirely. Yes it's armor ignoring shadow damage from both versions but both or even 1 copy is hardly worth it.[[rend enchantments] [[rip enchantment]

Quote:

2) Feast of Corruption

I find this to be one of few elites in GW that seems worthwhile for a Necro, due to the powerful spiking damage. However, in order for it to be worthwhile, it almost seems like you have to Echo it and hit twice for truly massive damage, especially due to the insane recharge time of the spell.

Any suggestions on the best way to run a FoC build that really dishes it out, but allows for good energy management, health and further damage?

Useful in some situations (farming) but not so much in generic PvE.Other curses skills are far more effective without the setup time,recharge time and energy costing(Saving your elite slot the recharge can be cut to seconds) [assassin's promise]

Quote:

FoC steals health as well, but if you're not hurt and don't have the energy/it hasn't recharged when you really need it, you're up the creek without a paddle.

Precisely

Quote:

3) Discord

This seems similar to Feast of Corruption, though it requires being quick, as the target needs to be suffering from both a condition and hex in order to work. If they're already suffering from both, then I'd imagine hitting them with Discord would wreak serious havoc, but I'm not sure, as this is one build here I haven't run as of yet (have yet to cap it).

Is this truly a worthwhile skill to use? Since it obviously requires Curses and/or Death Magic in order to hex and inflict conditions, putting that all together right seems like it could lead to a really nasty dealer of damage.

When backed up with a decent build it's godly.3 death hexes in the game which aren't too great.Although the team is filled with squishy physicals,I wouldn't change much from a generic curse/AP bar,which is still highly usefull.

Quote:

"Epilogue"...

Basically, I tired of being an MM and SS eventually became my "baby", as well as my straight-out blood/degen build, which is pretty nasty. I'd like to run a better SS build that is far more effective then when using Empathy ( though I truly actually had a lot of luck with that build, but health and AoE were difficult otherwise...).

So, any suggestions on superior SS builds are definitely my priority, and I've not found anything worthwhile as of yet. Since Mes is my secondary for Echo, perhaps investing in Mes skills in an SS build would be different, but effective?

Straight curses,pool into soul reaping apropriately. Typically used:[reckless haste][enfeebling blood][rigor mortis][mark of pain][barbs]

Quote:

The other two builds referred to here, Feast of Corruption and Discord, I'm very curious about, and would love some input there are well for dealing out massive damage.

Advice on different secondaries for builds revolving around those skills would definitely be helpful.

Thanks much for your time, and much thanks to any "Necro elitists" who can help me further my Necro experiences

.

MoP Nuker [[assassins promise] Curse and PvE skill spam bar.Fast awesome damage and fun which is generally highly recommended to run on a necro

Discordway Pretty much same base build as above

FoC Which is a pretty terrible build

masterjer1 · Jan 15, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

[signet of lost souls] generally will help you with some health gain, plus the energy gain can be quite helpful too.

Carinae · Jan 15, 2009, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Necrosis and GDW are good on the AP Nuker build also.

[necrosis][finish him!][assassins promise][mark of pain][rigor mortis][weaken armor][great dwarf weapon][resurrection signet]

Swap Rigor Mortis and/or Weaken Armor depending what you'll need for the area. I understand Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, but Necrosis and FH chain together so well, and GDW is grossly productive, so there isn't a way to fit it in.

Not a fan of Barbs, it's highly overrated, unless it's for a boss-killer build.

Osi Ri S · Jan 15, 2009, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Personally i wouldnt ever consider running Discord on my necro. Why would you when you have a far superior skill at your disposal? (Necrosis) However, i only say this when talking about a human player, discord on heros (Discordway) is a great hero setup to run.

Like Carinae said, Necrosis+FH is too good of a combo not to bring on your bar, those two skills alone have almost enough spiking power to be sufficient for your party.

Personally, i dont like using the AP MoP nuker build, mainly because i havent used it enough to become efficient with it (still too fragile for me) and also because im stubborn. If you are like me (you did state that you wanted a better SS build) then i suggest something like this build:

[spiteful spirit][insidious parasite][enfeebling blood][barbs][signet of lost souls][necrosis]["finish him"][sunspear rebirth signet]
(res sig can be switched out)

I find that Insidious Parasite is great for PvE play. It provides a bit of healing and like most necro skills, it only gets better in HM (enemies attack faster, damage stays constant.) Also, depending on where youre playing, IP coupled with a MM makes for a 1 hit KO vs physical baddies with AoE attacks such as cyclone axe, triple chop etc.

In my opinion, Rigor Mortis is a waste of a skill slot in PvE. I say this because the enemies that do block in PvE are handled quite nicely with the Necrosis+FH combo. Also, if youre running Discordway then blocking skills become a non-factor due to your parties armor ignoring damage capabilities.

So, if you wanna use an SS build then i suggest you use the build i suggested above. I am confident that it is a extremely powerful SS build.

However, i would suggest that you try and master the AP-MoP nuker build. Im pretty sure that it is unanimously considered the best necro build to run atm.

Daesu · Jan 15, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I agree with Osi Ri S. Necrosis is better than Discord but since it is a PvE skill, it can only be used by a human player. The build looks sound and SoLS and Insiduous Parasite should grant you enough health in general.

If you want raw power, the [Assassin's Promise][You move like a dwarf][ebon vanguard assassin support][finish him] combo is hard to beat along with a discordway heroes team, but as you can see from the skills used, you wont be playing much as a necro, if that bothers you.

If you want an AP-MoP build, a fiend MM hero would help with that. You can also bring barbs along. Cast MoP on a caster boss, wand it, fiend MM hero would also wand it, and fiends would attack the caster boss and trigger MoP on surrounding monsters. When you are done, cast Barbs on the boss and fiends would finish him off fast.

I dont think Necrosis fits in well in an AP-MoP build though, I would consider bringing [ebon vanguard assassin support][finish him][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] as the pve skills instead.

Xenomortis · Jan 15, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Everyone has pretty much covered everything.
As a curses necro, you should not be speccing into Blood Magic - it offers you nothing. Health shouldn't really be a problem, just make sure you have a good monk or healer.

Just max Curses and Soul Reaping. If you want to bring [Assassin's Promise], shove a load of points into Deadly Arts, but not too many so you lose out on SS and MoP's damage.

With such a high spec into curses, always try to bring [Mark of Pain] - it's pretty much the most powerful skill you can get your hands on. Run that with AP and lots of physicals and mobs will die fast.

As for an SS build, my current one is this:
[Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Insidious Parasite][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Necrosis][Signet of Lost Souls][Mark of Pain] - not very optimised, but it does the job well.

If you want to run the AP MoP nuke, the only real requirements are [Assassin's Promise] and [Mark of Pain], usually with [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] and [Rigor Mortis]. [Barbs] is a nice edition, so long as the target doesn't die too quick.

If you can bring 3 Necro heroes, it's certainly worth giving the old Discord team a try. You run: [Assassin's Promise][You Move Like a Dwarf][Finish Him!][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] and whatever you want - I'd recommend bringing [Mark of Pain] (only the first two skills are really necessary. Your three heroes play any role you want them to, except they have Discord as their elite and a decent Death Magic investment. I myself have a MM with Discord, a N/Rt with Discord and a generic Curses guy with Discord - other people will probably be able to give you more optimised builds.

I'm not sure about [Feast of Corruption] - it's a nice nuke, but it's got a horrible recharge and quite a heafty cost. Can't think of a situation in which I'd pick it over other elites.

Apart from [Assassin's Promise], there's little reason to delve into secondary professions unless you're running a support character - which is rarely as fun.