Curse

Xenomortis · Jan 28, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafiri_Mkorogai

So, if I were to try running an SS necro (first time playing necro in the years I have played GW), what team build would you recommend? Would sabway work well? If so, would I keep the SS necro that sabway already has? Any way to prevent overlap?

My other question: My wife plays a Dervish, so I will obviously be bringing things like Barbs, Mark of Pain, etc. Would it also be beneficial to go /rit for something like Splinter Weapon, or should I just slap that on one of the sabway heroes and either direct their casting a bit or hope for the best?

If you're an SS necro running with Sab heroes, get rid of the SS hero. You shouldn't overlap much, but heroes tend to cast the same stuff as you, frequently on the same target.
An SS with MoP build works well in most team setups, but obviously having a N/Rt healer with a MM/MB provides great synergy. Minions dying will fuel the other 2 necros (you being one of them) well.
So instead of bringing the three necro heroes for sabway, the obvious thing to do is only take two and take on one of the roles yourself (SS Curses being the best choice).

As for your wife... Either you could have a N/Rt healer take Splinter Weapon or she could. Alternatively you could. Doesn't really make much difference who, but I think it would be best if she didn't take it herself.

blue.rellik · Jan 29, 2009, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Since you're playing with a dervish and have a bnch of minions, I highly suggest like the following to bring along (it would be illegal without them)

[splinter weapon][barbs][weaken armor][mark of pain][ancestor's rage]

12+1+1 Curses
9+1 Soul Reaping
9 Channelling

I think those attributes work

Daesu · Jan 29, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

SS is ok, but it is eclipsed by the more powerful AP + PvE skills combo nowadays. You also want to avoid attack speed debuff curses like [[shadow of fear], [[faintheartedness], or [[meekness] when going with SS.

I would classify [[mark of pain] as a little different. Mark of Pain requires physical attacks and works best with ranged physical damage at high attack speed. It means if you bring that, you should have a team build to support it, otherwise you are not using it to its full potential.

Why ranged? Because MoP requires good selection of target, usually a caster surrounded by other casters. Melee physical is workable but they can be more easily body blocked.

Improvavel · Jan 29, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You also want to avoid attack speed debuff curses like [[shadow of fear], [[faintheartedness], or [[meekness] when going with SS.

Not really. You take more time to kill, but so does the enemy (and if the casters attack with that on, its equivalent of less spells cast). On the other hand, the rest of your party kills at the same speed before while taking less overall damage.

Considering SS is a bad and slow way for good teams to kill, who the hell cares?

Cebe · Jan 29, 2009, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I recommend against bringing the Rit skills.

The guy spoke about self heals, I was trying to show how he could incorporate better support for both himself and the team by using Restoration than he could by using Blood Magic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You shouldn't really be trying to heal and curse at the same time.

I admit Heroes are better at this than humans. If a player is too incompetent to notice when another party member is being hit on and there is a need to cast Weapon of Warding, they could always go down the offensive route and go with Splinter-Rage instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Focus on one or the other and you'll be much more beneficial to the team.

After having played a lot of Hard Mode very recently, I'm still in the mindset that diversity and build compression is key. Perhaps more useful in smaller party sizes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Once all your curses are up, you may feel like you have nothing to do, but they wear off quick enough and situations change.

They don't wear off that fast. Situations always change in PvE - it's the reason for promoting the use of very fluid, multi-purpose builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The restoration skills take points away from Soul Reaping and you'll want the energy.

Not really. You need the energy for the initial investment in the hexes...but nothing is dying at that point so Soul Reaping doesn't matter. As things start to die, 10 Soul Reaping is a perfectly acceptable level of energy gain. Any more is often a waste, especially in PvE when things die at a reasonable rate. This will free up a third attribute for more "pew-pew" or party support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Also, no Mark of Pain in that build

.

I always forget about Mark of Pain.

trankle · Jan 29, 2009, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafiri_Mkorogai

My other question: My wife plays a Dervish, so I will obviously be bringing things like Barbs, Mark of Pain, etc. Would it also be beneficial to go /rit for something like Splinter Weapon, or should I just slap that on one of the sabway heroes and either direct their casting a bit or hope for the best?

Keep in mind that many Dervish builds will use [Aura of Holy Might], which will turn the Derv's damage to Holy. This will remove any synergy with those skills. They still work with Sabway's minions, of course.

Daesu · Jan 29, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Not really. You take more time to kill, but so does the enemy (and if the casters attack with that on, its equivalent of less spells cast). On the other hand, the rest of your party kills at the same speed before while taking less overall damage.

Considering SS is a bad and slow way for good teams to kill, who the hell cares?

Sounds like you are making an argument of not bringing SS in the first place.

If you have decided to bring SS, then you shouldnt be bringing other skills to slow down your own SS kill rate. There are many ways to slow down the enemy's kill rate without slowing down your own SS kill rate as a result. Try [[enfeebling blood] as an example.

Voodoo Rage · Jan 29, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I'm at work and too lazy to test it out. Can someone clarify for me how Splinter Weapon acts with Spiteful Spirit, Mark of Pain, and Barbs?

Tyla · Jan 29, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Splinter Weapons outputs physical damage, therefore Barbs and MoP get that bonus if itis met.

Voodoo Rage · Jan 29, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

So then with a Splinter Weapon, you probably would want to cast Barbs on a different target than MOP and then hope they stay close enough for your attacks to trigger both curses. I'll have to try it out.

Do you guys bother spec'ing Channeling with that particular spell?

Xenomortis · Jan 29, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I would classify [[mark of pain] as a little different. Mark of Pain requires physical attacks and works best with ranged physical damage at high attack speed. It means if you bring that, you should have a team build to support it, otherwise you are not using it to its full potential.

Just because you're bringing MoP, doesn't mean your team should be set up to exploit its full potential. Even when just thrown onto the odd mob and a teammate or a couple of minions attacking that target, stupid amounts of damage can still arise.
If you really want to exploit its full potential, there's an AP-MoP nuker build for that - someone will have mentioned it here already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Not really. You take more time to kill, but so does the enemy (and if the casters attack with that on, its equivalent of less spells cast). On the other hand, the rest of your party kills at the same speed before while taking less overall damage.

Considering SS is a bad and slow way for good teams to kill, who the hell cares?

This is a stupid argument. SS may be slower than other builds, but works well with pretty much any team setup.
Just because it's slower than other options, doesn't mean you should make it even slower. Bringing Meekness, Shadow of Fear and other skills that reduce target attack speed is stupid, when a similar affect could be achieved with Reckless Haste and Enfeebling Blood - both skills reduce enemy damage output, are AoE and Reckless Haste often increases the damage done by SS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

After having played a lot of Hard Mode very recently, I'm still in the mindset that diversity and build compression is key. Perhaps more useful in smaller party sizes.

Build diversity and compression is useful, but I find if each player choses a role and sticks to it, they perform better (particularly heroes). This even applies to a 4 man vanquish or mission.
Only for certain builds would I recommend such variation in a build.
Each to their own I guess, if it's sensible and works, then I can't complain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

They don't wear off that fast. Situations always change in PvE - it's the reason for promoting the use of very fluid, multi-purpose builds.

Well ok, not that fast. But they can recharge quickly and in large mobs, you'll be wanting to recast ASAP. In my view, there should be very little time you aren't casting a curses skill.

I just find that by mixing attributes too much, you end up with a lack of direction and purpose. Mabye it's just me, but sometimes focusing in one field yields better results than doing a bit of everything.
Division of Labour almost.

MasterSasori · Jan 30, 2009, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Not really. You take more time to kill, but so does the enemy (and if the casters attack with that on, its equivalent of less spells cast). On the other hand, the rest of your party kills at the same speed before while taking less overall damage.

Considering SS is a bad and slow way for good teams to kill, who the hell cares?

Adding in Shadow of Fear, Meekness ect. simply doesn't make sense with SS. And SS isn't that slow, its still pretty efficient. It also fits well with basically any team anyway.

TalanRoarer · Jan 30, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Well i think you Definately need Enchantment Removal in there. [Rip Enchantment]?
Theres a better one maybe i dont do necro too much ^^
As far as Eotn Skills go, The ebon Wards are all good. Ev Sin support might help too.
But i definately reccomend [Mindbender].

Xenomortis · Jan 31, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenC777

Well i think you Definately need Enchantment Removal in there. [Rip Enchantment]?
Theres a better one maybe i dont do necro too much ^^
As far as Eotn Skills go, The ebon Wards are all good. Ev Sin support might help too.
But i definately reccomend [Mindbender].

I find there to be few enchanments I'd bother stripping in PvE. If so, [Rend Enchantments] or [Rip Enchantment] should suffice.

Mindbender is nice, but not exactly vital. It reduces recharge time and provides a speed boost. The speed boost is unimportant and recharge times are often reduced with a 40/40 set.

AtomicMew · Feb 02, 2009, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Depends on your team build. A dungeon-cryway crawl is going to look very different than general HM play. I'm going to assume you're running a sabway-ish hero/hench and that you're playing HM.

Echo - SS is a strong combo but not necessary. You're going to need some e-management, so [Signet of lost souls]. You also want to take advantage of PvE skills. [mindbender][technobabble][ebon vanguard assassin support][necrosis][great dwarf weapon] are all good options.

When I run my SS, I use this:
[spiteful spirit][mark of pain][barbs][enfeebling blood][signet of lost souls][mindbender][technobabble][ebon vanguard assassin support]
With a 40/40 curses set, a +20% enchant set and a +33% daze set (though I mostly just stay on the 40/40).

14 curses,13 soul reaping. There's no need for 16 curses.

Also, don't bother with enchantment removal on your build. There's just no space, and considering it doesn't need high spec, just put it on a hero with low spec.

AtomicMew · Feb 02, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Mindbender is nice, but not exactly vital. It reduces recharge time and provides a speed boost. The speed boost is unimportant and recharge times are often reduced with a 40/40 set.

That's not what mindbender does.

Quote:

After having played a lot of Hard Mode very recently, I'm still in the mindset that diversity and build compression is key. Perhaps more useful in smaller party sizes.

Nice theory, but that just doesn't work. If you're halfway competent you should be taking 3 PvE skills. That + SoLS + SS means you only have 3 skill slots to work with. There are far too many good curse skills to take to be able to multi-task into resto.

There is actually almost no reason to go Rt secondary on an SS player build besides maybe rez. If you want splinter weapon, forget about it. Take GDW. Leave the multi-tasking up to the heroes since a) they are better at it and b) have space on their bars to go into multiple lines.

Voodoo Rage · Feb 02, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Meh, Mindbender is probably nicer for an ele skillbar. Most of your necro spells cast fast enough (it affects casting time NOT recharge). Sometimes I'll bring Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom to boost recharges but I don't find that I'm worrying too much about recharges too much with a SS build.

BTW, I've found that a spear is very nice for barbs and mark of pain (be sure it does not have an elemental head).

Snow Bunny · Feb 02, 2009, 05:02 AM // 05:02

[spiteful spirit][necrosis][ebon vanguard assassin support][technobabble][mark of pain][barbs][signet of lost souls][enfeebling blood]

variants include [great dwarf weapon], [rend enchantments], and [splinter weapon]

Lourens · Feb 02, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Go N/E if you want to improve your input in the team
9SR
10EARTH
14CURSES
[Earth attunement][Ward against melee][Ward against foes]

Xenomortis · Feb 02, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

That's not what mindbender does.

Nice theory, but that just doesn't work. If you're halfway competent you should be taking 3 PvE skills. That + SoLS + SS means you only have 3 skill slots to work with. There are far too many good curse skills to take to be able to multi-task into resto.

1. Sorry, Mindbender reduces spell casting time. Even so, the effect is often made up for with a 40/40 set and there's little reason to bring it.

2. I disagree that a competent player should be bringing 3 PvE skills. If they can think of other skills that complement their build better, then the PvE skills become unnecessary.