Curse

daze · Mar 18, 2009, 03:39 AM // 03:39

what is wrong with giving a hero, [order of undeath][animate bone fiend][death nova][blood of the master] \\then you putting [ebon battle standard of honor] on your bar??

Moloch Vein · Mar 18, 2009, 04:12 AM // 04:12

How much do you think a hero is going to use Order of Undeath when running a bar with Death Nova on it?

ac1inferno · Mar 18, 2009, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

It's not even close. [Animate Bone Fiend][Order of Undeath][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] deals HUGELY more damage than a Minion Bomber, and no, heroes cannot run OoU well at all.

Battle sequence:

[Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] then [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] then [Blood of the Master] then [Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] then [Blood of the Master] then [Animate Bone Fiend] then [Blood of the Master] then [Animate Bone Fiend] then [Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] .....

No, heroes can't run that sequence, or anything close to it in terms of DPS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

what is wrong with giving a hero, [order of undeath][animate bone fiend][death nova][blood of the master] then you putting [ebon battle standard of honor] on your bar??

As daze points out, you can always put the PvE only skills on yourself if it affects all non-spirit allies in it.

Stop posting walls of text from wiki thanks

Heroes seem to be able to use that bar pretty well. Bringing [[Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom] can help reduce the recharge time of Vampiric Horror. As pointed out before, [[Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] works well, but it doesn't need to be on the MM's bar. It can be on any other allies' bar and the minions will still be affected.

pingu666 · Mar 18, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05

hero will run jagged bones and death nova better, or atleast not get frustraited xD

human can run most other stuff better, sometimes heros go spazy with flesh golem, and keep animating new ones, wasting corpses :x

play to the strengths of yourself, and if you enjoy MMing the play MM

Super Igor · Mar 18, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Bombing > Normal MM'ing, because heroes are godly with keeping [death nova] on every minion heroes > players. Because for many things hero AI beats most of the human players hero > player.

Xenomortis · Mar 18, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Stop posting walls of text from wiki thanks

Heroes seem to be able to use that bar pretty well. Bringing [[Ebon Battle Standard of Wisdom] can help reduce the recharge time of Vampiric Horror. As pointed out before, [[Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] works well, but it doesn't need to be on the MM's bar. It can be on any other allies' bar and the minions will still be affected.

You're free to take [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] on your bar, but the hero will not run OoU as well as a good human. They do not cast it frequently enough (especially if you give them Death Nova) and their pathetic programming means they'll be getting into trouble with the sacrifice.
Yes they can run it, but a competent human will surpass them with ease.
A competent OoU human, will surpass a hero with a MB build.

Order of Undeath does not require your minions to die to do damage. Minion bombing does. Even though you can easily keep that army going by summoning Bone Minions and using Jagged Bones, they do need to die AND have Death Nova on them.
Order of Undeath just needs minions. Bone Fiends may be regarded as the best (if prone to a quick death and bloody expensive), but Bone Horrors will do.

Chthon · Mar 19, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

Stop posting walls of text from wiki thanks

Heroes seem to be able to use that bar pretty well.

That build is pretty bad.

In any event, Xenomortis (and Carinae, and a half-dozen other people) is correct -- the AI cannot run an OoU build anywhere near as well as a competent human, even if you supply the EBSoH for them. It's not even close. Once you've seen a skilled human run a good OoU bar, the human's superiority is so obvious there's not even room for discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Bombing > Normal MM'ing, because heroes are godly with keeping [death nova] on every minion heroes > players.

That's like saying a hotwheels car is faster than a Ferrari because autistic children are better at organizing hotwheels in geometric patterns than adults. Or saying a fieldgoal is more points than a touchdown because you have a really good kicker. Just because you do a good job at what you do does not mean that what you do is necessarily the best thing to be doing. A good OoU bar run in mediocre fashion still does far more damage than a MB bar run perfectly.

pingu666 · Mar 19, 2009, 06:34 AM // 06:34

what stuff synergies well with OoU/ebon battle standard of honour ?
was thinking of winnowing, maybe barrage assassins/rangers, maybe some order of pain, barbs mop

Carinae · Mar 19, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Winnowing
Mark of Pain
Barbs
Go For The Eyes
Fall Back! or Charge! (as an IMS only)

All these work with minions.

Order of Pain only works with players.

upier · Mar 19, 2009, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

[jagged bones] says high

Yeah, .... no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Battle sequence:

[Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] then [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] then [Blood of the Master] then [Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] then [Blood of the Master] then [Animate Bone Fiend] then [Blood of the Master] then [Animate Bone Fiend] then [Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] .....

Completely AND utterly off - but I've been gigling about this for days now.

Carinae · Mar 20, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Oh, by all means, enlighten us.

ac1inferno · Mar 20, 2009, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Battle sequence:

[Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] then [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] then [Blood of the Master] then [Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] then [Blood of the Master] then [Animate Bone Fiend] then [Blood of the Master] then [Animate Bone Fiend] then [Blood of the Master] then [Order of Undeath] .....

Completely AND utterly off - but I've been gigling about this for days now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Oh, by all means, enlighten us.

I think it would be because you are saccing too much and making yourself an easy target. It's like you want to die and are trying to kill yourself.

upier · Mar 20, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Oh, by all means, enlighten us.

Like I said, it's completely off (topic).
It's what I'd run, but if necros were balanced I KNOW there is just no way for this to work ...

(If on the other hand you are wondering about JB - I thought it was obvious. It's shit.)

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

I think it would be because you are saccing too much and making yourself an easy target. It's like you want to die and are trying to kill yourself.

There is a reason why monks exist ...

Lourens · Mar 20, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Rt/N Bomber can be fun and a hero can't detonate minions

Chthon · Mar 21, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Like I said, it's completely off (topic).
It's what I'd run, but if necros were balanced I KNOW there is just no way for this to work ...

Huh? Could you please try explaining your position again with a bit more explication? (Grammatically speaking,) I can't make heads or tails of what you posted.

upier · Mar 21, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Huh? Could you please try explaining your position again with a bit more explication? (Grammatically speaking,) I can't make heads or tails of what you posted.

Did I mess up the tenses?
If I'd care enough for my necro to play him enough to obtain EBSoH I'd run this build.
Although if the necro class was balanced - the build would be impossible to run.
Off topic as noted.

Chthon · Mar 22, 2009, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Did I mess up the tenses?
If I'd care enough for my necro to play him enough to obtain EBSoH I'd run this build.
Although if the necro class was balanced - the build would be impossible to run.
Off topic as noted.

OK, that makes sense. And it's off-topic.

Hatchet Child · Mar 24, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

How much do you think a hero is going to use Order of Undeath when running a bar with Death Nova on it?

Hero spamming Death nova is the one thing that slows the whole "Process" down in MBing, That's my experience with it anyway.

I'm not saying "Don't give them death nova" it's what the hero AI has over us the ability to spam on non-targetable (is that even a word?) allies.

Just an off-topic question. Would hero AI work better with a....let's say 5 second recharge on Death nova?

Carinae · Mar 24, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatchet Child

Just an off-topic question. Would hero AI work better with a....let's say 5 second recharge on Death nova?

I'd say 2-3s would be ideal.

awry · Mar 24, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

I play as mm and don't use sabway/discordway/rayway. I've vanquished every area in prophecies except ice floe so far. Necrosis+ broken pve shouts let me do things a hero can't and i can bring different heroes instead of the norm to suit my purposes. I personally find it very fun to play.