Curse

snaek · Apr 12, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

fiends are badass

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Whilst I doubt your claim, that isn't the point I'm going to argue.
I'm going to instead, say you don't want to run an army of 10 fiends, because it's far too fragile. Fiends are great with OoU, but if you have an army made entirely of them, it isn't going to be easy to keep them up. Fiends cannot attack when they're dead and so OoU is wasted on them.
Even if you have a warrior taking the aggro, the mobs love switching targets to the lower level fiends with far less armour.

If you have fiends and horrors, that's much more durable and your army won't be destroyed so easily. The horrors will seperate themselves from the fiends and your army cannot be destroyed all at once.

iVendetta · Apr 12, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

In PvE, I get Olias to cook the meat shields with [[Jagged Bones], which is in fact pretty sturdy for PvE when AoE kills them.

In PvP (mostly AB), I like [[Aura of the Lich] + [[Boon of Creation] + [[Explosive Growth] + [[Spirit's Gift]. Sometims I pick up a Mesmer secondary for [[Arcane Echo], but energy management is beyond maintainable.

Also, the most badass heal in the game for a MM: [[Taste of Death]. After all, they are your minions.

ac1inferno · Apr 12, 2009, 04:29 PM // 16:29

I don't MM. I leave it to my Necromancer Hero to Minion Bomb:

[build prof=N/any death=12+1+3 soul=12+1][Optional][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Optional][Optional][Optional][/build]

- Optional 1
-- [[Jagged [email protected]] For general self-replenishing bombs.
-- [[Aura of the [email protected]] For corpse-light/corpse-free areas.
-- [[Icy [email protected]] For more AoE bombs; helps produce minions.

- Optional 6-8
-- If using the Ritualist or Monk skills, spec 10 into the respective Attribute from Soul Reaping.

- Necromancer skills:
-- [[Foul Feast] (and [[Infuse Condition]).
-- [[Rotting Flesh].
-- [[Putrid Bile].
-- [[Animate Shambling Horror] (and [[Taste of Death]).
-- [[Mark of Pain], [[Enfeebling Blood (PvE)] and/or [[Barbs].

- Ritualist Secondary
-- [[Ancestor's Rage (PvE)] and [[Splinter Weapon (PvE)].
-- [[Weapon of Warding (PvE)] and [[Protective was Kaolai].
-- [[Flesh of My Flesh (PvE)].

- Monk Secondary
- [[Protective Spirit], [[Aegis (PvE)] and/or [[Extinguish].
- [[Heal Party], [[Heal Other] and/or [[Karei's Healing Circle].
- [[Dwayna's Sorrow].
- [[Rebirth].

Chthon · Apr 12, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatchet Child

[ebon battle standard of [email protected]] [order of [email protected]] [animate bone fiend]

This.

12char.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Whilst I doubt your claim, that isn't the point I'm going to argue.
I'm going to instead, say you don't want to run an army of 10 fiends, because it's far too fragile. Fiends are great with OoU, but if you have an army made entirely of them, it isn't going to be easy to keep them up. Fiends cannot attack when they're dead and so OoU is wasted on them.
Even if you have a warrior taking the aggro, the mobs love switching targets to the lower level fiends with far less armour.

If you have fiends and horrors, that's much more durable and your army won't be destroyed so easily. The horrors will seperate themselves from the fiends and your army cannot be destroyed all at once.

I'm not saying that they are invicible, it's just that I don't have the minions pop often enough that I would recommend against them.

For example, I often bring [Animate Shambling Horror] that I use at the beginning of my army, but drop by the end so I have 10 fiends. Where they kill fast enough that you shouldn't lose more than one Fiend.

I'm slightly considering to making a video to show this, but I highly doubt I'm the only one who has ever done this, so I'm just waiting for someone to vouch for it too.

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

It's not about trolling. It's about there being an energy constraint that means that acquiring an all-Fiend army in a reasonable amount of time is very hard even without using Order of Undeath.

Why doing it is a bad idea has already been explained. What I'd like to add is that the people who claim to successfully run 10 Fiends under Order of Undeath are normally the people who don't really use the Elite, or who see it as their absolutely only job to run it, which means they bring energy crutches.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 10:34 PM // 22:34

[Order of Undeath][Animate Bone Fiend][Animate Shambling Horror][BotM][optional][optional][GoLE][Sunspear Rebirth Signet]

That's it.

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Please fill out the bar.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I left it out for your imagination.

I use [Masochism] and [Hexer's Vigor] but I don't want to deal with the dislike of those skills, which would only take attention away from the whole build.

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Ah, I see.
Masochism is worthwhile if you're spamming Blood of the Master (and you probably will be).
Hexer's Vigor? That ends when you cast a non-hex skill. You have no hexes. None! What the hell do you do when you activate that?

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

That's the point. The only utility in the build is "minion creation". You use Hexer's Vigor as a self heal with no hex on the bar, two energy management skills, and are shut out of a hard rez. By the way, if you absolutely want to use something like GoLE on that bar, I'd strongly recommend Auspicious Incantation, which returns more energy even at 0 Inspiration.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

I should explain.

When in emergencies of OoU. I use that skill. I'm trying to find a better replacement (considering taste of death), which is the reason I didn't intially put it on the build.

EDIT: Internet is slow. Damn GW.

Only thing I would cast during a near death OoU situation (not BotM lol) would be animate, and those take ~2 secs, and Hexer's doesn't turn off till the skill is cast.

Also I'm considering [Signet of Recall] vs [GoLE] what do you guys think?

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 11:23 PM // 23:23

The energy management skill used (the E secondary) can be beaten by Auspicious Incantation - at 3 Inspiration it returns 27 energy every 26 seconds, while disabling the Fiend for 9 seconds, and I don't really think you cast that spell on recharge. (Cost is 5, same as GoLE, so the actual return is 22 versus 15 every 26 versus 31.)

Where's your Ebon Battle Standard of Honor? With your stated goal of running 10 Fiends, not carrying that is insane.

Grim Lich · Apr 12, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Don't have factions :S. So no Auspicious Incantation. I'll try Signet of Recall just for kicks.

I've always found myself too busy for Battle standard, but that's just me. I'll throw that into my next run aswell. See what happens.

Anything else while I go try out the build again?

EDIT: Bad choice. Recall sucks. Bad.

upier · Apr 12, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferminator

How do I MM? Well I just hooked Xandra up with [skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill], [skill]Boon of creation[/skill] and [skill]Explosive Growth[/skill]. [skill]Boon of creation[/skill] pretty much restores her energy and heals her and [skill]Explosive Growth[/skill] creates a damage spike if she uses [skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill] in a fight. [skill]Spirit's Gift[/skill] acts as a party heal and mass condition removal too. When i get around to hooking her up with a spawning power rune she will make mini meat mountains

For the rest I might bring a hard res, Death Nova and Taste of death or another minion spell.

You've just managed to invest into Death and Spawning - two of the worst skill-lines in the game.
Explosive is a conditional Ancestors'. Just not in the same line as Splinter.
Boon is a skill replacement for SR.
Spirit's is nearby only. DSorrow does it better.
Plus going ritu means you've just locked yourself into a secondary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

If I'm giving a MM build to a hero, it's a [Jagged Bones] minion bomber.

This is a fascination I simply do not understand.
There is no bar compression - you need to run AMinions.
The recharge means you will have it on 2ish guys only. And AMinions does not suffer from a recharge that would justify that.
In PvE you don't need to be able to create minions without corpses. They will be abundant.
And if they are not - you need to ask yourself if it really makes sense to run a build that focuses on corpse exploitation.
It's pretty much just a conditional way of applying bleeding.

Just run one of the (secondary) bitch elites instead.

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 11:47 PM // 23:47

I only run Jagged Bones because it means I'll have some minions left over when they've all exploded. It's not much, but it's something. I take Shambling Horrors for that reason too.
It's not necessary and I could easily swap it out for something else. There's just not much else worth bothering with.

Moloch Vein · Apr 12, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Maybe it's just me but I've started to find Empathic Removal really useful on an MM hero. You can run it with no spec, get Foul Feast with 13SR, and suddenly you have a pretty workable support build.

Xenomortis · Apr 12, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I've run that on a hero a few times. It's nice and I think a good utility substitute.

Hatchet Child · Apr 13, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Anything else while I go try out the build again?

Get two friends. Run [Ursan blessing] and [Volfen blessing]

IAS for all Minions and Increased damage. It's really not worth two people running them but it's still fun "luk at moi munyunnnnz goooo!"

That's how i would MM if i wasn't too lazy.