Curse

bsodftw · May 10, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

hi i'm confused on my build. i have all campaigns. i run an Assassins Promise and some other assassins skills like finish him or something like taht. sorry i don't remember the names cus i can't play atm. but yeah. i run the 3 necro heros and they're all discord/MM. i wanted to know how the ai knows when to use discord. will it use discord even if it doesn't have a hex and condition on it?

Kerwyn Nasilan · May 11, 2009, 12:49 AM // 00:49

They will cast it when it will work, if you want them to really spam it (like on a boss) then you need to micro it but they will cast it pretty fast on there own.

Moloch Vein · May 11, 2009, 12:56 AM // 00:56

They will not use Discord when the condition is not met, if that's what you're asking.

samerkablamer · May 11, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Thats the problem nowadays. People just copy/paste builds from pvx or guru into their heroes builds and dont even know how they work or why they work. They just know that they do. By reading the guys question, and confusion over wether or not finish him is an assassin skill, i can tell hes new. Therefore, he should be playing as a new person instead of copy/pasting and trying to be experienced

Cherng Butter · May 16, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Discordway doesn't take experience...

Chthon · May 16, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

Discordway doesn't take experience...

Quoted for truth. Discordway takes next to no input from the player to produce passable results. That's why it's so popular. Just please don't confuse "easy, with passable results" with "actually good"; since it's not.

Dark Paladin X · May 16, 2009, 04:07 AM // 04:07

see, the problem with discord is that you need both a hex/enchantment AND a condition in order for it to work. If you try to cast a hex and then try to cast a condition or vice versa. By the time you try to cast Discord, you will realize that the hex/condition is removed. Also, since some bosses have natural resistance, Discord is pretty much useless.

bsodftw · May 17, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

are there any better builds for soloing and farming? i was looking into spiteful spirit and jagged bones builds.

AtomicMew · May 19, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Quoted for truth. Discordway takes next to no input from the player to produce passable results. That's why it's so popular. Just please don't confuse "easy, with passable results" with "actually good"; since it's not.

You're wrong.

For heroway general PvE (2 players) something like discordway + RoJway is quite possibly the strongest you can get. Discord by itself has huge AoE from putrid bile + minions exploding + splinter weapon as well as unbeatable single target damage. The only reason 6 discorders isn't so good, is because it's TOO strong and you don't need so much single target damage. With discordway + RoJway, all the AoE instantly destroys the mob while discord easily picks off stragglers and single targets, thus producing the fastest results possible.

bsodftw · May 19, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

what's Rojway? sorry about this question

Chthon · May 19, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

You're wrong.

For heroway general PvE (2 players) something like discordway + RoJway is quite possibly the strongest you can get. Discord by itself has huge AoE from putrid bile + minions exploding + splinter weapon as well as unbeatable single target damage. The only reason 6 discorders isn't so good, is because it's TOO strong and you don't need so much single target damage. With discordway + RoJway, all the AoE instantly destroys the mob while discord easily picks off stragglers and single targets, thus producing the fastest results possible.

If you think discordway is even remotely fast, then you've never even seen this game played well. If you want an idea about what sorts of team builds leave discordway's killing speed in the dirt, use the search feature. I've been over this so many times I'm sick of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsodftw

what's Rojway? sorry about this question

It's the generic name for any team build that uses a lot of characters with high smiting and Ray of Judgment. Right now it's very effective because of an AI bug that prevents the monsters from realizing that they're standing in AoE, so they stay put and die. Of course, as soon as a-net gets around to fixing the bug, it will be worthless and there will be lots of crying on the forums by bad players who need it as a crutch.

(Also, the hero/hench AI don't recognize it as AoE either, so they also stand there and die when facing monsters with multiple copies of RoJ.)

traversc suggests combining it with discordway, which I have to admit vastly improves discordway. (Of course, simply discarding the discord characters in favor of more ROJers would improve it even more...)

_Nihilist_ · May 19, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

[Ray of Judgment]way. Monk Smiting Prayers Elite from Factions. AoE that doesn't cause scatter, and applies Burning. It's broken as Hell, and therefore, gets used quite often.

My Alliance has nicknamed it the "Hallelujah of Doom".

bsodftw · May 19, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

but it has such a long cool down time? sorry to be so clueless, but how it is so effective?

_Nihilist_ · May 19, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

RoJ + Arcane Mimicry + By Ural's Hammer

If you really want more RoJ, go with Arcane Echo, and use Auspicious Incantation for e-mgmt. Also, 40/40 Smiting Set FTW.

Armor-ingoring AoE damage that hits multiple times, does extra damage through Burning, and doesn't cause enemies to scatter.

What do you think happens when an RoJway team drops 6 RoJ's in the span of 2 seconds, and mobs don't consider it AoE?

Shit blows up fast

AtomicMew · May 19, 2009, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

If you think discordway is even remotely fast, then you've never even seen this game played well. If you want an idea about what sorts of team builds leave discordway's killing speed in the dirt, use the search feature. I've been over this so many times I'm sick of it.

That is completely false. I've already been over the argument many times with inexperienced players. The argument that because discord is single target damage and therefore inferior to AoE is incorrect because discordWAY is capabable of providing more AoE than most other builds via the AP caller for example with MoP + 20 minions, other factors taking advantage of fast single target death (for example, putrid bile and death nova due to constant refreshing of minons-.

Quote:

(Of course, simply discarding the discord characters in favor of more ROJers would improve it even more...)

That is also false.

Discordway alone, used correctly produces more AoE than RoJway over time, considering RoJ recharge. However, discordway AoE is non-stackable (e.g. splinter weapon, MoP, death nova), and that is the reason for taking RoJs.

Also, the old mindset that AoE > single target damage is incorrect since, if you already have enough AoE to destroy a mob, more AoE won't help. A combination of AoE and single target spikes allows you to destroy mobs as well as to pick off stragglers thus producing the fastest results possible.

@Cthon: you have never, to my knowledge, actually posted your supposedly "superior" fastway build. Please post it (or provide a link to it) so that we may discuss the pros and cons of it.

Cherng Butter · May 19, 2009, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Pretty sure buffed physicals can tear shit apart pretty quick. Unfortunately, running that kind of build is hard-ish w/ H+H, so discordway is a good alternative.

Moloch Vein · May 19, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Discord deals approximately 100 damage and takes 3 seconds for one hit. Any ranged physical with a proper build is going to produce more than 33dps. This is why Discord's killing speed is less than ideal. Running 6 Discord heroes (or 4+2RoJ or what you fancy) is only a good idea if you feel you need 6 characters with support healing and protection. If you need 6 heroes that you micro minimally, this is a decent option. However, it should be noted that if you don't micro them, they will not even produce close to 33dps. Options like Barrage rangers combined with Order of Pain or Order of Vampire will vastly out-damage Discord-type builds; these will also take advantage of the aforementioned Mark/AP caller properly.

I don't like comparing apples and oranges. Do you want a build designed for six heroes and two human players?

Jeydra · May 19, 2009, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

@Cthon: you have never, to my knowledge, actually posted your supposedly "superior" fastway build. Please post it (or provide a link to it) so that we may discuss the pros and cons of it.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10365555

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Discord deals approximately 100 damage and takes 3 seconds for one hit. Any ranged physical with a proper build is going to produce more than 33dps. This is why Discord's killing speed is less than ideal.

What about minions? Or Death Nova?

Moloch Vein · May 19, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

^ I was only referring to the Discord elite; obviously the minions will do damage, as will Death Nova, Putrid Bile and whatever else you care to bring.

Carinae · May 19, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

You can outperform Discord with just an Orders and 3 physical hench. (ie: two warriors and a ranger)

This saves you two hero slots for a MM and and Ether Healer (Prot). The final hench slot goes to a prot henchman.

If YOU are a Sin, Warrior or Paragon then you can run SY and take advantage of Orders as well.