Curse

Shadowmere · Jun 03, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Ok, back in December I posted my idea for a change to Verata's Sacrifice in Sardelac, there wasn't a great turnout of responses, most people seemed to fail to grasp how underpowered of a skill Verata's Sac was and in general it seemed few who had more than passing knowledge of necromancers posted. So I figure either way it's better I try than not, here's my suggested change to Verata's sac again in the necro forum this time.

Quote:

Suggested change:

Sacrifice cost: 10% | Energy Cost: 15 | Casting time: 1s | Recharge: 30s
Description: All but target minion dies, for 20 seconds that minion has +5..12..18 health regeneration and deals +5..15..20 damage. If that minion is elite it also moves and attacks 20% faster.

Explanation:
Back in september Order of Undeath was changed to a very similar functionality to this, while it made the elite viable in pvp and offered new ways ot use minions it greatly upset the PvE community as Order of Undeath is one of the most useful elite skills for a PvE Minion Master. And so the change was quickly reverted.

This suggested change would bring back what was intended with that change to Order of Undeath and also make both Verata's Sacrifice and the elite minion Flesh Golem more appealing and useful in all areas of play.

As it stands both of these skills are sub-par with the current Verata's Sacrifice being outclassed by Blood of the master and other forms of minion healing.

Additionally the Flesh Golem while a very strong minion in it's own right suffers from a slow attack rate and more effective elites for most uses of minions. (Order of Undeath is better for causing damage with minions, Aura of the Lich is better for maintaining a minion wall, and Jagged Bones is more useful for Minion Bombing)

The change to Order of Undeath in september while upsetting for many at first actually proved to be a unique way to use minions, by buffing one single minion instead of a large number of them. In a sense this went against the standard strength in numbers philosophy of most minion tactics but it proved very useful as the buffed minion often had more damage buffs stacked on it creating a very potent damage dealer. The proposed change to Verata's Sacrifice here would both make the skill more useful but also play well with the Felsh Golem as you're always limited to one Flesh Golem anyways.

For refrence here's the consice description of Order of Undeath during it's change.

Quote:

All but one of your minions die. If that minion is non-Elite, it deals +5..30 more damage, has +5..20 Health regeneration, and attacks 33% faster (20 seconds).

snaek · Jun 03, 2009, 06:29 PM // 18:29

so you basically want the short-lived mechanic change of the elite skill [order of undeath] back, only this time in the form of a non-elite skill slot?

okie... sure why not *shrugs*

riceangel · Jun 03, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Well the minion might be on roids, u still cant control targeting so I dont like the idea of having a single minion, is the trade-off really worth it?. With a bunch they are bound to hit one you like. Just sounds gimmicky, buff a single minion with splinter weapon and a couple of enchants

Xenomortis · Jun 03, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Well it's a pet on steroids. This doesn't change the fact that you're still heavily specced into Death Magic (which is a pretty weak line outside of MMing), meaning you have to split your remaining points between Soul Reaping and something else to provide any useful support.

I remember toying with the nerfed OoU - 'twas fairly amusing watching a bone fiend outshoot a ranger. The rest of my bar consisted of Rit heals and a couple of spirits. Left something to be desired, but it worked.

Expherious · Jun 03, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

+10 regen is the highest it goes, same with degen.

Oh and no one likes targeting minions, hence why we have heros utilize death nova

Xenomortis · Jun 03, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expherious

+10 regen is the highest it goes, same with degen.

Oh and no one likes targeting minions, hence why we have heros utilize death nova

The extra regeneration will counter a minion's natural degeneration which increases with time. It will also oppose the effect of any degeneration given the minion.

And targeting a single minion (particularly a Flesh Golem) isn't that hard.

Ratson Itamar · Jun 03, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Might be nice with a Flesh Golem...How about instead of changing Verata's Sacrifice, change a really really unused death magic skill like Taste of Pain. Honestly I suggested that particular skill not only because it's useless but also for its great name and icon. What a waste :P

Edit: How about making the +dmg a life steal instead?

Xenomortis · Jun 03, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I've never known anybody use Verata's Sacrifice...

Ratson Itamar · Jun 03, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I've seen a lot of different builds, currently favorable or not, some of them used have Verata's Sacrifice. But I've yet to have seen any build utilizing Taste of Pain in any form or shape.

Hugh Manatee · Jun 04, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Order of Undeath's short lived effect wasn't as good as it's orignal form, but it was fun. Noone I know of uses Verata's sac. It sucks,the only good build with it was before other death elites came along and you could glyph of renewal it and your minions. Since it and minions in general got nerfed,it's useless.

Toning down the elite effect of the old OoU, making it able to affect the flesh golie, make it a viable minion, make it an interesting skill for other minions. It'd have to be split in pvp/pve or you get teams of MMs spamming goalies off a saccer. Here was my idea when they reverted OoU:

15e 2c 30r

Enchantment

All of your minions but the targeted minion die. This minion attacks and moves 33% faster, and deals +5-20 damage for 5,15,25. seconds. This skill has a 75% chance of Failure if you are controlling 3 or less minions.

Basically, you have to be controlling the guy you want buffed, plus 3, total of 4. This is to stop 8 guys from getting an army of juiced golies off a saccer. Since it's an enchant it can be countered in pvp, and you have to cover it in pve.

Edit: Taste of pain might be interesting if they change it like you said. 10e, 1c, 20r enchantment, for 5,10,15 seconds this minions attacks steal life.

AtomicMew · Jun 04, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I don't understand the point of having a single buffed minion. I mean, isn't that totally counter-intuitive to the idea of a MM? Why not just play a ranger or paragon?

snaek · Jun 04, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenomortis

I've never known anybody use Verata's Sacrifice...

it used to be used quite heavily pre-factions

_Nihilist_ · Jun 04, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

I used to use Taste of Pain on my W/N in AB. Back in the days when HealSig was the one and only Warrior self-heal, I ran some pretty wacky W/N combos to avoid Tactics.

Carinae · Jun 04, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I've never known anybody use Verata's Sacrifice...

Up until the day factions opened, VS was THE heal for minions. BotM worked like "Heal Area-for-minions" back then.

+10 regen for ALL minions for 10s. 10e/1sct/20s (25s?) recharge.

It basically doubled a minions normal lifespan all by itself. Then you'd use BotM and/or HA to actually heal them, after you trapped them against a wall or corner to bunch then up.

The new BotM is nice, granted, but even Ensign thought the change to VS was stupid. Now that's pretty bad.

Shadowmere · Jun 04, 2009, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

I don't understand the point of having a single buffed minion. I mean, isn't that totally counter-intuitive to the idea of a MM? Why not just play a ranger or paragon?

well the Flesh Golem has always been rather counter-intuitive to standard MM thinking; you can, after all, only have at a time, and the current verata's sac has been counter-intuitive to this thinking as well (requiring 3 or less minions to avoid its ridiculous recharge).

the changed OoU was very interesting as it showed what this "super minion" concept could do. so I figure why not take 2 other relatively underpowered/rated skills and make is so they can be used in a similar way to the changed OoU. It'd be niche or "gimmicky" yeah, but it would finally give the fleshie a real purpose instead of being the odd man out as it were in the pool of MM elites.

Ratson Itamar · Jun 04, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I just want to see a type of MM in PvP and Flesh Golem is perfect for that, just not on it's own. It's one minion who can be re-animated, so If we make a one-minion type build then that stops an imbalanced build from emerging.

Why not just take a para/ranger etc? Because it absorbs damage and let you bring an utility caster using the rest of his bar to support the team. I hope something like that will be created, as for now Death Magic is rather obsolete (I'm not counting the mindless Toxic Chill build as a true necro build).