Curse

TheCorvine · Aug 19, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Hey guys, Id like help in bettering my Curses Necro. Tweak what I have so far.

N/Mo

8 soul reaping
15 Curses
8 healing prayers

515 health, 45 energy

Barbs
Mark of Pain
Suffering
Desecrate Enchantments
Insidious Parasite
Spiteful Spirit (elite)
Vigorous Spirit
Healing Breeze

I usually cast SS and Parasite on groups or casters, then apply Vig. Spirit. If there is a warrior or assassin in party, I spam Barbs and Mark of Pain on all enemies, then hit with Desecrate Enchantments for 'massive damage'.

Please make this build better, and recomend some changes, thanks

leetLoLa · Aug 19, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

2,5/5
hp is too low
no need for healing breeze and vigorius, bring echo to spam moar ss.Ss on casters???????fail u should use it at meeles.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Aug 19, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

One get all your attribute points (I assume you have 170)
Two ditch healing crap
Three get your health higher
Four cast SS on melee.

Xenomortis · Aug 19, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Is this... real?

Lose all healing skills and spec 12 Soul Reaping and 15/16 Curses. You don't need healing and Healing Breeze and Vig Spirit are rubbish anyway. Healing is for monks.

Suffering is crap, if you have Factions get Reckless Haste.
Take Enfeebling Blood.
Cast Insidious Parasite on incoming physicals.
Spiteful Spirit is meh, but is more effective when cast on physicals. If you have factions, cap Assassin's Promise.
Desecrate Enchantments is far from "massive damage".
If you have Nightfall, Signet of Losts Souls and Necrosis are useful.

HP is fine if you're using a 40/40 set and a Superior rune (but you're not). Use Survivor insignias and Vitae and Vigor runes.
Energy is fine.

TadaceAce · Aug 19, 2009, 11:06 PM // 23:06

your average, zero synergy curse necro build. 2/5

Xenomortis · Aug 19, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

your average, zero synergy curse necro build. 2/5

Be fair. Barbs and Mark of Pain synergise with any other physicals in the team very well.
It's just that the rest of the build isn't geared towards these.

Chthon · Aug 20, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09

I rate it a D+.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCorvine

Hey guys, Id like help in bettering my Curses Necro. Tweak what I have so far.

N/Mo

13 soul reaping
16 Curses
0-3 healing prayers

515 health, 45 energy

Barbs
Mark of Pain
Suffering NO.
Desecrate Enchantments NO.
Insidious Parasite Not great, but acceptable.
Spiteful Spirit (elite) Not great, but acceptable. Get Assassin's Promise
Vigorous Spirit NO.
Healing Breeze NO.

I usually cast SS and Parasite on melee, then apply Vig. Spirit NO.. If there is a warrior or assassin in party, I spam Barbs and Mark of Pain on all enemies YES., then hit with Desecrate Enchantments for 'massive damage'. NO.

Please make this build better, and recomend some changes, thanks

Things to replace the bad skills:

Curses:
- Enfeebling Blood
- Reckless Haste
- Rip Enchant
- Rigor Mortis
- Foul Feast + Plague Sending
- Weaken Armor
- Well of Darkness/Ruin (only if no minion user is in your party)
SR:
- Signet of Lost Souls (if you have energy problems)
PVE:
- Necrosis
- Pain Inverter
- Technobabble
- Great Dwarf Weapon
- Ebon Battle Standard of Honor
- Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
- Tryptophan Signet (but not in conjunction with SS and/or Reckless Haste)
- "Finish Him!"
- "You Move Like a Dwarf!"
Other:
- Rez isn't bad on a midliner like a necro. Or you can always bring rez scrolls....

TheCorvine · Aug 20, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

thanks guys, Ive already made some changes

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 20, 2009, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Would I be correct in assuming you've only got Prophecies? You'll want to confirm this. There isn't much point in us telling you your bar sucks because there are better Factions/NF/EotN skills if you don't have any of those campaigns.

Daesu · Aug 20, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

your average, zero synergy curse necro build. 2/5

You guys are harsh.

First of all if this is a PvE build, then you usually want your 3 PvE skills in your bar as they are generally more powerful than your normal skills. This is why Assassin Promise is so powerful as an elite because it helps to recharge those PvE skills and grants you energy for the next round of attack.

The usual 3 PvE skills I carry are YMLAD, EVAS, and FH. YMLAD is useful because of the damage, knock-down, and cripple at the same time. Along with AP, it helps to fuel Discord if you are using discordway hero team build. The AP hex and cripple from YMLAD also synergize with Iron Palm from your EVAS for another free knockdown.

Besides these skills, I also bring an enchant removal like Rend Enchantments or Rip Enchantment, if my team doesn't have one. I bring Mark of Pain because it synergizes with the minions from my MM, my EVAS, and my spear weapon switch. I bring Spinal Shivers for interrupts and equipped my necro and heroes with cold damage wands even though that is not very conventional. So this is what I usually bring on my curse necro:

Assassin's Promise
YMLAD
EVAS
FH
Rend Enchantments
Mark of Pain
Spinal Shivers
Res

Tenebrae · Aug 20, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You guys are harsh.

First of all if this is a PvE build, then you usually want your 3 PvE skills in your bar as they are generally more powerful than your normal skills. This is why Assassin Promise is so powerful as an elite because it helps to recharge those PvE skills and grants you energy for the next round of attack.

The usual 3 PvE skills I carry are YMLAD, EVAS, and FH. YMLAD is useful because of the damage, knock-down, and cripple at the same time. Along with AP, it helps to fuel Discord if you are using discordway hero team build. The AP hex and cripple from YMLAD also synergize with Iron Palm from your EVAS for another free knockdown.

And you are wrong. He said he needs help to get better at using a curses necro and you are not helping at all. You are just giving a general build , wich is AP Discord Caller , with some adjust to fit in a necro bar. No one is saying its bad and Discord doesnt work but this thread is not about that.

A good curses necro can be anywhere and N/A AP caller can be used only on Discordway builds and another very few cases.

Daesu · Aug 20, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

A good curses necro can be anywhere and N/A AP caller can be used only on Discordway builds and another very few cases.

You are wrong and that is a common misconception. The only thing you may want to change is to replace one of the skills with enfeebling blood if your party member doesn't already have a weakness skill.

Just because a particular build synergizes well with another team build, doesn't necessarily mean it must suck on its own. A N/A AP curses caller can also be used effectively in a general setting. There is nothing in that bar that would be broken without discord.

Tenebrae · Aug 20, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You are wrong and that is a common misconception. The only thing you may want to change is to replace one of the skills with enfeebling blood if your party member doesn't already have a weakness skill.

No , you are the one thats wrong . Like i said , that is not a good necro curses build , no matter what you say or do , its an N/A AP caller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Just because a particular build synergizes well with another team build, doesn't necessarily mean it must suck on its own. A N/A AP curses caller can also be used effectively in a general setting. There is nothing in that bar that would be broken without discord.

Wrong again , is not sync , is MADE for that build. Try to go on a "balanced" pve team where ppl attacks diff targets and use that build .... 2-3 secs more and your bar is useless almost 30 sec. Try to go with some non-Xway Pug and instead of being a normal SS curses necro ping that bar ..... half of the team will say "do you see Discord here pal ? change it".
Pointless out of Discordway and pointless to use AP as an e-management on a Necro for PvE lol . Soul reaping says hi !

Calista Blackblood · Aug 20, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No , you are the one thats wrong . Like i said , that is not a good necro curses build , no matter what you say or do , its an N/A AP caller.

Wrong again , is not sync , is MADE for that build. Try to go on a "balanced" pve team where ppl attacks diff targets and use that build .... 2-3 secs more and your bar is useless almost 30 sec. Try to go with some non-Xway Pug and instead of being a normal SS curses necro ping that bar ..... half of the team will say "do you see Discord here pal ? change it".
Pointless out of Discordway and pointless to use AP as an e-management on a Necro for PvE lol . Soul reaping says hi !

There is no set in stone rule that a curse build has to have 8/8 skills from the curses line right? I mean just because a build doesn't use SS doesn't mean it isn't a curse bar. Thats like saying a monk heal bar isn't a heal bar because is uses Martyr over WoH.

You're only calling it a caller bar because it's been generalised that way by Discord teams and pvxwiki pages.Granted that is exactly what Daesu's build is,AP has been getting used to nullify the hefty recharge on some curses skills long before Discord was buffed to it's current state.

AP isn't on the bar to be used as energy management either.

-Will Farm For Gold- · Aug 20, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

This is my personal opinion what the best Curses bar is... I run this alot.

1. "You Move Like A Dwarf"
2. Pain Inveter
3. Spiteful Spirit
4. Insidious Parasite
5. Barbs
6. Enfeeblind Blood
7. Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support
8. Rez Sig

Now I run this with Discord Heroes and it should be modified if you dont have a lot of Physical Damage or any Minions. You should try this one out.

Daesu · Aug 21, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No , you are the one thats wrong . Like i said , that is not a good necro curses build , no matter what you say or do , its an N/A AP caller.

It is a more effective necro curse build.

Quote:

Wrong again , is not sync , is MADE for that build. Try to go on a "balanced" pve team where ppl attacks diff targets and use that build .... 2-3 secs more and your bar is useless almost 30 sec. Try to go with some non-Xway Pug and instead of being a normal SS curses necro ping that bar ..... half of the team will say "do you see Discord here pal ? change it".
Pointless out of Discordway and pointless to use AP as an e-management on a Necro for PvE lol . Soul reaping says hi !

You think far too highly of SS. An AP curse necro beats a SS necro in most situations, especially where PvE skills are involved.

And PUGs are the worst people you can ask to judge any build, considering the quality of the builds PUGs themselves bring along. It is people like you that cause PUGs to keep thinking that a SS necro is always better than an AP necro. SS is too highly over-rated by pugs. Pugs just fail to understand how useful AP is to casters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

You're only calling it a caller bar because it's been generalised that way by Discord teams and pvxwiki pages.Granted that is exactly what Daesu's build is,AP has been getting used to nullify the hefty recharge on some curses skills long before Discord was buffed to it's current state.

AP isn't on the bar to be used as energy management either.

That is correct, many casters have been using AP even before Discord was buffed to begin with. Most pugs are not experienced enough to know about that though.

Chthon · Aug 21, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

You are just giving a general build , wich is AP Discord Caller

1. Curse necros were using AP for quite some time before Discord was buffed into being non-terrible.

2. The idea is to reduce the recharge of Mark of Pain, which is a remarkably strong damage skill, hobbled by an awful recharge.

3. Using Discord with a AP-MoP build is counterproductive. You do not want to be doing large amounts of non-physical damage to the cursed target and that's exactly what discord does. It's just dumb. There's been a couple threads on this topic.

4. Discordway is mediocre anyway.

5. If I was going to critique Daesu's build, I'd say:

YMLAD should probably be replaced by Technobbable for caster-heavy zones, and By Ural's Hammer for caster-light zones. YMLAD works for Discord callers because it's an instant-cast condition. AP-MoP curse necros don't mix well with Discord, so they don't need that. For them it's just an interrupt. For most circumstances where you need interrupts, AoE dazed is more useful than a single interrupt. For circumstances where you don't really need interrupts at all, BUH gives a healthy damage boost.
What are you rending that couldn't just be ripped? Unless the monsters are stacking really powerful prots, the 2sec cast and life sac on rend aren't worth it.
Technobabble makes Shivers unnecessary, which frees a slot.
Needs more Barbs.
Rez scroll instead of rez sig. With scrolls around now, I find it really hard to justify ever bringing a sig instead of a hard rez or a scroll.

Daesu · Aug 21, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Curse necros were using AP for quite some time before Discord was buffed into being non-terrible.

Agree

Quote:

2. The idea is to reduce the recharge of Mark of Pain, which is a remarkably strong damage skill, hobbled by an awful recharge.

Agree.

Quote:

3. Using Discord with a AP-MoP build is counterproductive. You do not want to be doing large amounts of non-physical damage to the cursed target and that's exactly what discord does. It's just dumb. There's been a couple threads on this topic.

MoP provides AoE damage which discord teams tend to lack. Besides it also synergizes well with EVAS, minions from discord MM, and physical damage henchies. Suffice it to say that AP-MoP is effective, with or without discord. Discord already gives good single target damage, can't argue with adding an additional AoE damage too.

Quote:

4. Discordway is mediocre anyway.

Yes it is, because it is a universal build. One can always come up with better builds that are adapted to specific areas.

Quote:

5. If I was going to critique Daesu's build, I'd say:

YMLAD should probably be replaced by Technobbable for caster-heavy zones, and By Ural's Hammer for caster-light zones. YMLAD works for Discord callers because it's an instant-cast condition. AP-MoP curse necros don't mix well with Discord, so they don't need that. For them it's just an interrupt. For most circumstances where you need interrupts, AoE dazed is more useful than a single interrupt. For circumstances where you don't really need interrupts at all, BUH gives a healthy damage boost.
What are you rending that couldn't just be ripped? Unless the monsters are stacking really powerful prots, the 2sec cast and life sac on rend aren't worth it.
Technobabble makes Shivers unnecessary, which frees a slot.
Needs more Barbs.
Rez scroll instead of rez sig. With scrolls around now, I find it really hard to justify ever bringing a sig instead of a hard rez or a scroll.

Yes Technobabble can be a good alternative for caster heavy areas. YMLAD is not a bad pve skills and certainly useful in its own right so to each his own. I like the knockdown which also serves as interrupts in areas that have casters but are not necessarily caster heavy.

Daze does not work well in all situations too. For example there are areas with both caster heavy as well as melee heavy groups all in the same area. Technobabble would not be useful against warriors. Furthermore, daze is a condition and can be stripped in areas with condition removal which are more common than hexes removal.

Rend doesn't have any life sac unless you are rending monk enchantments and that 20+ sac per monk enchantment is negligible. There are monsters that carry multiple enchantments like Ceratadons so ripped may not get rid of Sliver Armor which is dangerous to your melee attackers as effectively as Rend does. The Mist Vaettir are another example of multiple enchantments creatures that are annoying to kill by most melee because of their Sympathetic Visage and IW.

Barbs are useful if you have a physical heavy team. As for res scrolls, considering the average number of deaths per mission for a typical pug in HM, I am not that rich to be using consummables for every mission.

AtomicMew · Aug 21, 2009, 04:42 AM // 04:42

YMLAD is useful in its own right for knocklock and also for anti-scatter.

Pretty much what daesu said.

Spinal shivers is an interesting choice, but not something I have ever tried.

The only thing I'd disagree with is rend enchantments. I find it's better to take rend on a hero. 2 second cast time sucks and anything you cast does (should) do way more damage than anything a hero can do. So your time is more important and rend works the same on a hero bar as it does on your bar.

Daesu · Aug 21, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

The only thing I'd disagree with is rend enchantments. I find it's better to take rend on a hero. 2 second cast time sucks and anything you cast does (should) do way more damage than anything a hero can do. So your time is more important and rend works the same on a hero bar as it does on your bar.

Fair enough. But note the other problem with letting your heroes bring rend, is the arbitrary decision on when and what enchantments to use it on. Without AP, rend recharges in 20s while ripped recharges in 10s.