Curse

gaurdianaq · Dec 19, 2009, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Does anyone else find this to be so? I find the flesh golem has become useless... yes it is huge and you can summon a lvl 32 flesh golem with cons and other skills and sure it does like 94 - 184 damage or something per hit but from what i've seen you can either have 10-11 minions doing 18-52 damage and 1 minion thats a tank and doing 94 - 184 damage or having all minions doing like 40 - 60 damage with OoU...

Lets do the math here at minimum....

if all 11 collide at the same time.... is about 274

at maximum on a really good swing it would be about 684 which is highly unlikely against high level monsters

Now with a guaranteed 40 damage per hit with high death magic with OoU thats about not quite as much but to be quite honest how often is a bone horror without OoU gonna do 50 damage....

People complain about that 2% health loss with OoU but in all honest just bring Vampirics and you get about 40 - 60 health with each vampiric swipe

Maybe flesh golem was better before nightfall... I started with factions and didnt get nightfall till after I beat it but thats just my oppinion...

Does anyone else find the flesh golem useless? The only other thing its good for is you can summon another one when it dies because it leaves a corpse... but it is susceptible to disease/bleeding all those things...

I think it either a damage boost, attack speed boost, or no degen or maybe a capped degen of 5 instead of 10 heck even 8 would make a difference

Oppinions?

Braxton619 · Dec 19, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Yeah I don't see any more flesh golem minion masters anymore. Now it's mainly Jagged Bones or OOU.

/signed for golem being useless

Eragon Zarroc · Dec 19, 2009, 06:56 AM // 06:56

yes, quite useless.

aura of the lich = insta minion army

prefer discord nec with minion bombers. bombers = multiple targets hit with high dmg and poisoned.

many minions with mark of pain or barbs or ebon standard of honor = ownage

Konker2020 · Dec 19, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I have always found the Flesh Golem to be pretty useless... the only really benefit is the added health and armor they get, but even then, that can be a hassle moreso than anything else due to it having a higher armor rating than the caster. Lets take a tank that hits for (based on your statistics, if thats what you want to call them considering you have no sources) 94-184 per hit every 3 seconds, or in the case of Bone Minions, 2 that hit for 18-52 per second.

3*18 = 54*2 = 108
3*52 = 156*2 = 312

So 2 Bone Minions at the cost of one skill hit for anywhere between 108 and 312 damage over 3 seconds time, whereas a Flesh Golem at the cost of one skill hits for anywhere between 94 and 184 damage every three seconds. With the Flesh Golem, you have only one, you alleviate the pressure of the consistent hits from 2 minions each second and you waste your elite spot which can be put to better use.

Generally, there are better skills.

**Again, I have used no sources other than your own, and have generalized any information**

Evil Eye · Dec 19, 2009, 07:11 AM // 07:11

give him a 1.2 attack speed

gremlin · Dec 19, 2009, 07:26 AM // 07:26

The Flesh Golem isn't useless its just been downgraded a little.

I never really liked it much as it seemed so much slower and probably dumber than the usual minions.
Still it had a useful place in my 10 minion army, no use on heroes of course as they lack the wits to reanimate it and use the corpse for any old minion.

Jagged bones for me made the minion master a purely hero build and I doubt I have mm'd myself much since.
If they ever rewrite the way animations work then I might have a place for the flesh golem again and want to be an mm myself.

Doing away with the natural health deterioration would be a good start, it was an important factor before the 10 minion limit its not so important now.

Raise them and let them run around either for a limited time say 15 minutes or until killed.
Then you just need the blood of the master to heal damaged ones, while your at it don't allow any other form of healing to work.
They are dead not wounded so necro healing only.

That way the minions could keep up with parties without everyone having to stop and wait for them.
Never happen of course but I can dream.

GWfan#1 · Dec 19, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16

I agree with the idea of increased attack speed, Flesh Golems are pretty useless, HOWEVER; they are still very cool

Bob Slydell · Dec 19, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Make them the "tanks" of minions... give them armor bonuses, IAS, maybe a skill or two. That way, choosing between any Minion Master elite will actually be a hard choice and might cause some people to breakdown trying to process it in their heads.

Sethellington · Dec 19, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

I wouldn't like to see the functionality changed completely, like Aura of the Lich, which changed completely. I'd still like 1 huge minion, but it should be stronger, if only a PvE change. More DMG/IAS/Health/Armour, whatever. There's no need for Golem with Asura Summons of Mysterious Summoning Stones.

Xenomortis · Dec 19, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

I wouldn't worry about it too much. In my mind there are only two worthwhile MM elites anyway (OoU and AotL) and even then, I don't much care for AotL.
Apart from OoU and AotL, the other death magic options are Jagged Bones, Flesh Golem and Discord.
Discord is fine if your team is built for it, but it's a hero thing really.
Jagged Bones is generally unnecessary and doesn't really add much.
Flesh Golem doesn't add much either.

Apart from buffing Flesh Golem to stupid levels, then it isn't ever going to surpass Order of Undeath. If a minion master isn't going all out offensive, then they can sink their elite into support. I'm quite fond of Divert Hexes or Empathic Removal myself.
As a human MM though, I only ever go all out offensive. A hero can do the support MM role well enough.

Carinae · Dec 19, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

FG is great for solo-MM farming, as it gives you a strong anchor for Dark Bond. Otherwise, it's quite mediocre, although, it isn't a BAD elite for newbies since it can't be messed up.

And FYI: FG can reach level 34.

Xenomortis · Dec 19, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

And FYI: FG can reach level 34.

So I have one slow, if harder hitting minion that I can't control and that is not a preferable target for the enemy AI? Oh, and has accelerated health degeneration.

Carinae · Dec 20, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

pfft, you want everything

HigherMinion · Dec 20, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

I hate the fact that you can only have one; and it seems to be elite because of it's fleshy corpse, and few higher levels. But this makes it easier to kill via conditions, so your golem is going to be under heavier degen and go pewpew alot

People still run this, but they're a feared peoples known as pugs. The others have have a mind to bring a better damage buff like OoU.

What would it really take for the Flesh Golem to be better or on par with this elite?
"Every 5-10 seconds or so, Flesh Golem will use defensive/offensive shouts or some Monster skill"

I guess it depends what people want out of the MM role. damage= OoU Defense= Golem.

Magikarp · Dec 20, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Exploit nearest corpse to animate a level 5...26 Flesh Golem. Flesh Golem can hit up to 3 adjacent foes. The Flesh Golem leaves an exploitable corpse. You can have only one Flesh Golem at a time.

FengShuiDove · Dec 20, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Honestly, it would have to be pretty ridiculous to justify having 1 living minion over OoU's power of a dozen hard hitting minis, AotL's just-add-water disposable instant army, Jagged Bones' constant minion pressure, bleeding, and exploding minis, and Discord's armor ignoring happy pwnage.

I just don't see it becoming viable without a major overhaul. That having been said, AotL was overhauled fairly recently with good results. It could be done, but balancing it so that 1 minion brings the power of your army up to par with the other elites...

Perhaps a damage buff for minions that are adjacent/nearby to the flesh golem. Let the FG deal greater damage due to higher level, and give him a proximity buff that brings the total amount of damage done by a FGMM to that of an OoU.

Magikarp · Dec 20, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

that's basically what I was saying with my previous post. Increase his levels by 3-5 levels, let him hit like a scythe, and maybe increase his attack speed to that of a scythe+33% IAS.

upier · Dec 20, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

I always figured that the biggest waste of a Fleshy was the fact that you could only have one guy active.
So I'd definitely start by trashing the guy a bit at the expense of removing that clause.

Chthon · Dec 20, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

You're just now figuring this out?

Yes, fleshy is mediocre. Nothing bad about him, but roundly inferior to OoU.

HigherMinion · Dec 21, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

that's basically what I was saying with my previous post. Increase his levels by 3-5 levels, let him hit like a scythe, and maybe increase his attack speed to that of a scythe+33% IAS.

That's the best idea I've heard for it; but what about attacks Adjacent foes

And and and KDs on criticals!