Curse

Xenomortis · Mar 30, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If there is synergy then it is not just twice but more than twice the power so to that end, Necromas is right IF there is indeed synergy between the rits.

This argument is flawed, Necromas' number crunching is more convincing.
The builds are now different.
If I run one Rit, I run the strongest option for one Ritualist.
If I run two rits I cannot run two copies of the strongest build. I have to run two, offensively weaker builds or suffer otherwise (at least, this was what my argument was based on).
The two builds may synergise (they do, but only with regards to Painful Bond) but in total, they may not necessarily exceed twice the offensive power of the single SoS Rit build.

I will however concede.
I made one quite crucial mistake and missed the 33% IAS on SoGM. That bumps the damage the spirits do to potentially exceed SoS rits, although a lone SoGM rit has fewer spirits.

Daesu · Mar 31, 2010, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

This argument is flawed, Necromas' number crunching is more convincing.
The builds are now different.
If I run one Rit, I run the strongest option for one Ritualist.
If I run two rits I cannot run two copies of the strongest build. I have to run two, offensively weaker builds or suffer otherwise (at least, this was what my argument was based on).
The two builds may synergise (they do, but only with regards to Painful Bond) but in total, they may not necessarily exceed twice the offensive power of the single SoS Rit build.

I will however concede.
I made one quite crucial mistake and missed the 33% IAS on SoGM. That bumps the damage the spirits do to potentially exceed SoS rits, although a lone SoGM rit has fewer spirits.

You don't have to run 2 copies of the same build and besides that would not be a build synergy. The reason why the builds are different is because they each offer something to the other rit that the other rit doesn't have. That is build synergy.

On the other hand, you are also right that from that particular team the only obvious synergy is Painful Bond. But when you think more about it, channeling and communing each have their own strengths and weaknesses. Having both the rits on seperate attribute lines allows for a stronger team overall and I dont just mean DPS. From communing you have SoGM, blind, enchant removal, and interrupt. From channeling, you have splinter, AR, painful bond, and SoS.

Necromas · Mar 31, 2010, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I didn't mean to say having a second rit was a force multiplier like, say, how adding physicals straight up multiplies the damage output of a physical support caster, just that it does help or at least not hurt to take 2 spirit spammers instead of one if they do it right.

I was surprised myself when I actually did the number crunching on how much the 33% IAS from SoGM really matters even with only 4 spirits. And a lot of people miss the fact that spiritleech stacks with the existing lifesteal on vampirism and bloodsong so resto really does work as an alternative to communing for the second attribute of a channeling rit.

I'm getting kind of tired of PuGs that won't even consider taking 2 offensive rits.

Cuilan · Mar 31, 2010, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

I'm getting kind of tired of PuGs that won't even consider taking 2 offensive rits.

Do you have two builds saved to make it easier for the two rits and would you share them here?

Daesu · Mar 31, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

I didn't mean to say having a second rit was a force multiplier like, say, how adding physicals straight up multiplies the damage output of a physical support caster, just that it does help or at least not hurt to take 2 spirit spammers instead of one if they do it right.

I was surprised myself when I actually did the number crunching on how much the 33% IAS from SoGM really matters even with only 4 spirits. And a lot of people miss the fact that spiritleech stacks with the existing lifesteal on vampirism and bloodsong so resto really does work as an alternative to communing for the second attribute of a channeling rit.

I'm getting kind of tired of PuGs that won't even consider taking 2 offensive rits.

I think partly that is due to the PUG rits themselves and the over popularity of SoS. SoS rit builds are quite standard so when PUGs ask for a spirit spammer, they are asking for such a build. Many rits don't know of any other rit builds that can be as or even more effective than a standard SoS build.

Anyway if your calculations are correct, then a single SoGM rit can deal more damage with the following build:

16 Communing 15 Channeling

Signet of Ghostly Might, Anguish, Pain, Disenchantment, Shadowsong, Painful Bond, Spirit Siphon, Summon Spirits

Communing spirits don't last long (except Pain) and they are expensive, however. I also not a fan of pure DPS builds.