Curse

waeland · Mar 25, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I dediced to try Factions (did't finished this campaign yet), started new necro character. In one mission I met lev. 20 Rit playing Mobile Spirit Spammer. Its armor-ignoring DPS was truly amazing. I know that SS necro or minion bomber necro hero can do a lots of armor-ignoring damage too, but probably still much far less than this imba rit build - am I right? Yes, I know DPS isn't everything, I know about great synergy of necros with minion bomber of spirit spammer, I know that SS or minion bomber necro have half of skill bar pretty much free so there is more space for variabts and utility... but it still bugs me anyway;)

Cuilan · Mar 25, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

AP MoP nuking and Orders/SoH buffing. Necromancers can easily out damage most things.

FoxBat · Mar 25, 2010, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Key limitation of spirits is lack of AoE and that they can't pinpoint target anything. So as mentioned MoP for AoE, or pinpoint attacks with buffed physicals (or both.)

Chthon · Mar 25, 2010, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Curses can easily beat spirits for armor-ignoring DPS. AP-MoP is the dominant build, but SS is probably easier to learn for starters.

For that matter, a properly designed minion master can hugely outdamage a spirit build.

Necromas · Mar 25, 2010, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Spirit spam is just easy and consistent, but a lot of necro builds have more potential just because of AoE and utility.

Zodiac Meteor · Mar 25, 2010, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Curses can easily beat spirits for armor-ignoring DPS. AP-MoP is the dominant build, but SS is probably easier to learn for starters.

For that matter, a properly designed minion master can hugely outdamage a spirit build.

Spirits < Curses necro damage.

Don't forget the spirits make handy meat shields too, a well placed spirit wall can make your monks job easier.

shander · Mar 25, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Curses can easily beat spirits for armor-ignoring DPS. AP-MoP is the dominant build, but SS is probably easier to learn for starters.

For that matter, a properly designed minion master can hugely outdamage a spirit build.

provided there are enough usable corpses to start, and keep, the ball rolling.
There are quite a few farmable areas where corpses aren't that easy to come by.

Spirit spammers don't have to worry about that.

Magragoc · Mar 25, 2010, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shander

provided there are enough usable corpses to start, and keep, the ball rolling.
There are quite a few farmable areas where corpses aren't that easy to come by.

Spirit spammers don't have to worry about that.

Neither do Curse Necromancers. Spirit Spamming is easy to learn and does high damage, but it still can't compete with a skilled Curse Necro. Which, to be fair, is much harder to use properly.

Karate Jesus · Mar 25, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

AP MoP Nukers can do faaaaar more damage than spirit spammers.

Of course, so can a SS Necro, but you have to know what you're doing.

Minion bombers can too, but heroes are so much better at spamming Death Nova, that it doesn't make much since to run one on yourself.

Snorph · Mar 25, 2010, 10:56 PM // 22:56

What about you as a SS and take 3 necro heros? I am going too try that and see that outcome. Now that I capped SOS.

Dimus · Mar 30, 2010, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Waeland. I agree with you, I also think that the ritualist does more damage, even Discord can not compare with this. One ritualist can easily kill monsters in UW. Moreover, Anet make them stronger with each new update. This is the biggest imbalance in the game.
Maybe rename the game in Rit Wars? :\

Xenomortis · Mar 30, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27

AP-MoP with some physicals.
OoU MM with a competent backline.

Both of those will easily outdamage anything a Rit tries.

SS will probably outdamage it too if your team isn't very effective, but it's fairly slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

I know that SS necro or minion bomber necro hero can do a lots of armor-ignoring damage too, but probably still much far less than this imba rit build - am I right?

No, you're wrong. Necromancers are the undisputed caster-kings of damage in GW PvE. Namely by using the setups I mentioned above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimus

Waeland. I agree with you, I also think that the ritualist does more damage, even Discord can not compare with this. One ritualist can easily kill monsters in UW.

Discord is hardly the be-all and end-all of Necromancer or hero setups. Comparing a one bar build to a 4 bar build is also rather silly, no matter which way the result appears to go.

Necromas · Mar 30, 2010, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimus

One ritualist can easily kill monsters in UW.

Because spirits can tank, not because of how much damage output they do.

In teams with other players and/or heroes, where you can set up synergies and don't need to solo tank, necros will shine with their powerful hexes or things like minion bombs where the spirit spammer just keeps doing the same damage and can't do things like AoE damage or even pick his target.

Basically, spirit spammers are strong in solo, and do pretty good and most importantly consistent armor ignoring single target damage (though it will be spread out among all the targets randomly), but that's it.

Dimus · Mar 31, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

The biggest mistake was instantaneous activation of the spirits, add to this summoning spirits without corpses, a huge armor ignoring damage (from ONE ritualist - in the party) and do not forget that the spirits can be moved.

Swahnee · Mar 31, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Probably spirits seem to be more effective because they are so easy to use, while MoP is quite difficult to use properly, so you can see its potential only when you have learned how to use it. However, as said above, an experienced AP MoP necro will do far more damage than everything else in GW (except maybe a lvl 20 fire elementalist against a ball of lvl 0 monsters

)

waeland · Mar 31, 2010, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

... However, as said above, an experienced AP MoP necro will do far more damage than everything else in GW ...

But you are comparing team setup (AP MoP + physicals) vs. single character build, don't you? And speaking of teams - spirit spammer seems to be only way how to feed soul reaping of necro teammates in the areas where bodies are rare.

Xenomortis · Mar 31, 2010, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

But you are comparing team setup (AP MoP + physicals) vs. single character build, don't you? And speaking of teams - spirit spammer seems to be only way how to feed soul reaping of necro teammates in the areas where bodies are rare.

Necromancers typically act as a damage multiplier when dealing with the better templates.

If you want a build that does lots of damage without the need for team synergy, then there's still Order of Undeath.

Magragoc · Apr 01, 2010, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

But you are comparing team setup (AP MoP + physicals) vs. single character build, don't you? And speaking of teams - spirit spammer seems to be only way how to feed soul reaping of necro teammates in the areas where bodies are rare.

Soul Reaping doesn't trigger off of Spirit deaths. In any case, what areas are you playing in that aren't chock full of enemies? Some areas are light in exploitable corpses, but you'll always get a good return off of Soul Reaping.

As to your first point, we're not talking about solo farming. We're talking about team play in a team game. Spirit Spammers do nice damage, and I'm glad that Ritualists finally got some love, but you have to face facts. Spirits are dumb. Really, really dumb. They spread that nice damage out over any number of monsters that go their way, but you the player, cannot control their targeting. It's that old "reactive hex" thing: you can't improve your damage through skillful play, you're at the mercy of the AI.

Compare that to a good Curser, which rewards a team that can focus-fire. It's harder to play well, but the damage potential only ramps up higher and higher as your team gets better. A well placed Mark of Pain can fill your screen with glorious little yellow numbers.

waeland · Apr 01, 2010, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

Soul Reaping doesn't trigger off of Spirit deaths.

My mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magragoc

Compare that to a good Curser, which rewards a team that can focus-fire. It's harder to play well, but the damage potential only ramps up higher and higher as your team gets better.

Yes, it seems to me when I saw spirit spammer in action as an effective build for PvE but not so much fun to play. So - I am truly happy to hear necro can still be great PvE HM damage dealer. Maybe so much people now play spirit spammer because it is recently buffed and easy to play.

Life Bringing · Apr 03, 2010, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Mark of Pain and hitting shit with a spear can outdamage spirits if you take the time to ball foes slightly