Curse

Antelope Salad · Jul 06, 2010, 02:00 AM // 02:00

I really want to try this build but I don't have eye of the north and I'm not happy with SS mainly because I'm only level 15 and I haven't gotten the perfect heroes together but I do have most of the skills in the primary build.

I noticed Finish Him is pretty much perfect for what it needs to do (kill a mob before the AP hex is removed) and I haven't seen any similar skills but maybe I'm missing something obvious.

Can I run this build at optimal efficiency without eotn with another choice?

Edit:
I have no idea why I wrote Ne for necro. N obviously!

jackinthe · Jul 06, 2010, 03:10 AM // 03:10

necrosis for dmg, augury of death for dw and as a cover hex

The Black Mumba · Jul 06, 2010, 03:33 AM // 03:33

With AP you are supposed to spam EOTN pve skills.

Buying Eotn doable?

Andemius · Jul 06, 2010, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Even if you do find a decent replacement (unlikely as PvE skills tend to be very strong), You won't get into a party which checks builds, that's just how most fowsc teams are.

Luminarus · Jul 06, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

AP is meant to recharge and fuel the 3 pve skills (Vanguard Sin, FH & its either Pain Inverter or YMLAD im not sure). Mark of Pain then nukes off the vanguard sin.

You can run it, infact, i believe it was run to boost the damage of warriors before eotn. However, it wont be ANWHERE near as good, let alone "optimum efficiency"

Xenomortis · Jul 06, 2010, 11:21 AM // 11:21

You're level 15. It really doesn't matter what you run at this stage.

Running AP-MoP without the PvE skills really necessitates good heroes.
You'll want minions (a minion bombing hero with prots is always welcome) and some other source of physical damage. A Paragon or Ranger hero that can fuel paragon shouts can work. The third slot might as well be a Rit with spirits since that's basically the strongest hero you can take after the MB.
It matters a little less which henchmen you take. You'll probably want one of the Monk henchmen (healer) and you'll be left trying to fill up with the remaining ones. Avoid melee henchmen like the plague - they're hopeless at target selection and won't score you too many MoP triggers.
Rangers that don't have Kindle Arrows are ok - avoid Reyna (Proph), Aidan (NF and EotN only, fine in Proph and Factions), Zho (Factions only, fine in EotN).

You'll have a harder time without the EotN PvE skills - you won't be able to get a quick, on demand spike of triggers without EVAS so you'll have to wait for minions to arrive and securing kills is harder without YMLAD or Finish Him. Necrosis isn't as good, but can sort of work as a substitution.

You'll want a spear for yourself and your caster heroes generally.

Naughty Nurse · Jul 06, 2010, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Because, as someone else already mentioned, your level 15 and you dont have eotn.... Discord is commonly used with Ap "Caller". As you only have acces to two necros, Discord will function less then usual. If you maintain both necros (very unlikely at level 15) I suggest using a combination of the following two skills

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbed_Signet

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Icy_Veins

Add a few hexes and maybe enfeeble to that, you have a decent build to go with discord

First, play the game and level up.

Antelope Salad · Jul 06, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

I have Necrosis now (with the SS build). 1s is a lot longer than it seems heh. What do you think about Enfeebling Touch?

At level 16 (my planned Curse level) it's 0.75 cast time, 53 health drain (damage I presume?), and applies Weakness for 21 seconds for 5 energy on a 5s cooldown.

Is it really a bad idea to get melee heroes? I do have MoP now with the SS build. My heroes run around like chickens with no heads (Dunk, Jin, x) making the mobs separate which renders MoP useless.

Thanks for the tips.

Xenomortis · Jul 06, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Why do people always think "Discord" whenever Assassin's Promise is mentioned?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antelope Salad

Is it really a bad idea to get melee heroes? I do have MoP now with the SS build. My heroes run around like chickens with no heads (Dunk, Jin, x) making the mobs separate which renders MoP useless.

Yes. Any idiocy you observe with your ranged or caster heroes is generally made worse when you tell them try to run into melee range. Although they do kite less.

Enfeebling Touch is bad; it's touch range which is generally a bad idea for a caster. Enfeebling Blood is much better. In fact, Enfeebling Blood is amazing - get it.

Antelope Salad · Jul 06, 2010, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Yes. Any idiocy you observe with your ranged or caster heroes is generally made worse when you tell them try to run into melee range. Although they do kite less.

What if they were warriors to begin with? The wiki says most AP/MoP builds are used together with a warrior's thousand blades/whirlwind skills?

Couldn't you run a minion master and 2 warrior heroes and micro the warriors to tank + use those skills?

maxxfury · Jul 06, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Not really (RE melee heroes) they kite when you want them to tank, and do stupid things to them selves

If your running AP-mop (which is NOT a disco caller :/) and you want heroes, rangers or paras would be a good option with their ranger physical attacks to proc mop, especially as they dont need to run around in circles trying to hit the target you want, as they can jsut fire/throw from the spot...

gotta treat a hero like a retard....and set your team up to work well with retards

hence why disco work...cos its mindless and all but impossible to mess up.. unlike frontline

Antelope Salad · Jul 06, 2010, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Will the minion bomber's minions just know to semi-tank the mobs before the mobs target the ranged heroes? I haven't played with a minion master/bomber yet so I'm not sure how the mechanics work.

All I know is, if Dunk or Ji happen to get aggro they basically run in the most retarded path possible to ensure I deal the least amount of damage.

I basically feel like I sit there and Necrosis spam every target to death and once in a blue moon the mobs are setup in such a way that I can use SS or MoP somewhat effectively. This is general PvE missions, not lvl 20 farming.

Xenomortis · Jul 07, 2010, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Set Dunkoro or any purely defensive hero to "Avoid Combat".
Set all other heroes to "Guard". Never set them to "Attack".

Chthon · Jul 07, 2010, 02:40 AM // 02:40

1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antelope Salad

Can I run this build at optimal efficiency without eotn with another choice?

Obviously not. You might be able to run it passably though.

2. You're level 15. Now is not the time to worry about builds.

3. AP-MoP is NOT a discord caller. MoP has a pretty serious anti-synergy with discord. Moreover, discord is pretty mediocre anyway. I suggest you completely and permanently ignore anyone who suggests discordway for your necro.

4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andemius

Even if you do find a decent replacement (unlikely as PvE skills tend to be very strong), You won't get into a party which checks builds, that's just how most fowsc teams are.

First, I very much doubt a lvl 15 is even trying to join fowsc groups.
Second, AP+MoP is NOT exclusive to fowsc. It's a general-purpose build that predates fowsc by a couple of years. In fact, the fowsc/manlyspike variant is a bastardized version of the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antelope Salad

What if they were warriors to begin with? The wiki says most AP/MoP builds are used together with a warrior's thousand blades/whirlwind skills?

Those are human warriors. In addition to the intelligence issue, Whirlwind Attack is a PvE-only skill, which are only available to player characters.