Curse

Xiner · Aug 11, 2010, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Hey guys,

Not sure if this has been asked before. Used the search but couldn't the right answer at my question. Sorry so if it's already been answered.

First of all I love to play my necro, because the lots of different roles they can fill up in a team. Usually when I'm playing with H/H I take SS-Nuker. Sometimes I take minion master.

So I was looking at PvX-Wiki (don't blame me if they're bad builds) for General -> Great -> Necromancer builds. There I saw the 'N/Rt SoLS Healer'. Build here! I tried that build and it works pretty nice, but I prefer being a monk healer with Healer's boon. :P
I know Soul reaping is awesome for healing, but IMO it can't heal if your team gets big spikes. Well things like that aint a problem when Life (spirit) dies aswell as you drop PwK. So my question: is this build alright for a human player doing HM missions/vanquishes?

Another builds I noticed is a N/Mo build. Build here! That one lacks in Divine Favor, but it can nearly spam spells endless. So my second question: would that be a nice build for doing HM stuff? IMO it misses Divine Favor, but it has almost unlimited energy. Also if you put in some elite like Glimmer of Light you can endlessy spam 100hp heals. :P

I love playing a necromancer (especially roles which support your team or help to kill the enemy faster) and I also love healing. So is a necromancer able to heal with one of those builds or some kind of variant?

Anyway I know I can play my monk whenever I feel I want to heal, but IMO it's awesome to player lots of different things with 1 profession. ^^

Thanks for any answers!

// Xiner

ajc2123 · Aug 11, 2010, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Most N/X healing builds were made for hero's who don't know how to manage energy and spam spam spam, so there will be human builds that are much more effective depending on the player. That's all I can say.

Xenomortis · Aug 11, 2010, 03:09 PM // 15:09

You can heal as a Necromancer, but it's not really recommended.
You're heals are not as efficient as a Monk's or Ritualist's, but Soul Reaping is very powerful energy management. This means you're not looking for big spike heals, but constant healing spam - this is why N/Mo and N/Rts are often used on heroes since heroes tend to spam skills mindlessly and Soul Reaping helps them do that.
With that in mind, Glimmer of Light is probably superior to Word of Healing for a N/Mo, Heal Other and even Infuse Health might be more viable too. You're looking for spells that can be spammed rather than large numbers attached to skill descriptions.
However, you will almost always be outdone by a good monk and a monk can bring Seed of Life.

The buff to Blood Bond also makes a Blood Nec very good at healing pressure frontliners receive. Blood Bond combined with Order of the Vampire makes your physicals very durable.

HigherMinion · Aug 11, 2010, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The buff to Blood Bond also makes a Blood Nec very good at healing pressure frontliners receive. Blood Bond combined with Order of the Vampire makes your physicals very durable.

^. Healing as a necromancer has never been easier, with the AoE heal bursts of 116~health from a foe dying under Blood Bond with a good In The Area range. Bring spears on casters and lots of physicals= gg OoV/BB.

You don't need to depend on monk or ritualist spike heals; maybe just Prot Spirit and Aegis.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 11, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Yes necromancer healing is good. It's meta after all.

It's not fun to run ( in my opinion) though. Just have heroes run it. They do it well.

Xenomortis · Aug 11, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

Yes necromancer healing is good. It's meta after all.

Being the meta is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for being good.

Grim Lich · Aug 12, 2010, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

Most N/X healing builds were made for hero's who don't know how to manage energy and spam spam spam, so there will be human builds that are much more effective depending on the player. That's all I can say.

Well I would say heroes are better with SoLS than humans. And that's where half the energy can come from.

Xenomortis · Aug 12, 2010, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

Well I would say heroes are better with SoLS than humans. And that's where half the energy can come from.

Do you have any idea how demonstrably wrong the second part is?
9 (13 or 14 SR) energy every 8 seconds (if used perfectly on recharge) comes to just over 3 pips of energy regen.
Soul Reaping (at 13) can give 39 energy every 15 seconds, 42 at 14. That's almost 9 pips.
Even with only two SR triggers (which is easy to hit) every 15 seconds, you'll get near 6 pips.
Only if you're just about managing one kill every 15 seconds will SoLS ever claim to be where "half the energy comes from".

The difference between SoLS and SR gains is that SoLS can be used more or less whenever you want for more constant returns, but however you cut it, it's worse than Soul Reaping unless you're dealing with a boss or simply cannot manage to spike down a faltering opponent (in which case you have problems beyond your backline).

Since SoLS is much less important, it doesn't matter if a hero is going to be slightly better than a human at using it (I've never really observed how good heroes are with it, but they don't seem to be godly or anything), but humans are always better with heals, even if the aim is simply to spam them.

Grim Lich · Aug 12, 2010, 01:42 PM // 13:42

*cough*. . . I may have been exaggerating a tad.

Xenomortis · Aug 12, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Lich

*cough*. . . I may have been exaggerating a tad.

Indeed, I only leapt at it because it was misleading.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 13, 2010, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Being the meta is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for being good.

I didn't say it's meta so it's good. I said it's good so it's meta...

Xiner · Aug 16, 2010, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Interesting to read all those comments of you!

So as far as I understand this now, Necro heal is quite nice for the 'smaller'/spam jobs? So when it comes to the harder area's/heals monks are much better?

Another thing I'm still wondering. A Necromancer is able to spam Glimmer of Light over and over. 1/4 cast time, very short recharge, 5 energy and around 100 health at 12 healing prayers. Seems pretty nice IMO. Combined with Heal Party when it comes to party heals. Bad thing is it lacks in Divine Favor, which should give you around 150 health per heal. But 100 is still good IMO ^^
Another bad thing, when it gets disabled by some disable-foes-elite-skill you can't spam the heal. But beside of that... It is still nice?

Apologize if i'm saying really stupid things here, so don't blame me if so. ^^

HigherMinion · Aug 16, 2010, 05:36 PM // 17:36

I don't like GoL; it seems slow, and reminiscent of Orison of Healing. In times of pressure it won't help much. If you want spam, Life Sheath. But regardless, take a monk or ele. Necro humans are better off supporting with blood if anything.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 16, 2010, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiner

Interesting to read all those comments of you!

So as far as I understand this now, Necro heal is quite nice for the 'smaller'/spam jobs? So when it comes to the harder area's/heals monks are much better?

I wouldn't say that. If you give a necro healer WoH he can use it as a pretty hard and effective heal. Plus he will have much better e management than a monk ever will.

Really if you want to have moderate to high heals spammed the whole time use a necro. If you want to have uber great high powered heals about half as often use a monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiner

Another thing I'm still wondering. A Necromancer is able to spam Glimmer of Light over and over. 1/4 cast time, very short recharge, 5 energy and around 100 health at 12 healing prayers. Seems pretty nice IMO. Combined with Heal Party when it comes to party heals. Bad thing is it lacks in Divine Favor, which should give you around 150 health per heal. But 100 is still good IMO ^^

I must insist you use WoH. 2 more seconds isn't debilitating and is worth the extra health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiner

Another bad thing, when it gets disabled by some disable-foes-elite-skill you can't spam the heal. But beside of that... It is still nice?

Apologize if i'm saying really stupid things here, so don't blame me if so. ^^

You should have a secondary spammmable heal on your necro healer anyway. So it shouldn't be a big deal.

Xiner · Aug 16, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

I wouldn't say that. If you give a necro healer WoH he can use it as a pretty hard and effective heal. Plus he will have much better e management than a monk ever will.

*Quote*

Really if you want to have moderate to high heals spammed the whole time use a necro. If you want to have uber great high powered heals about half as often use a monk.

*Quote*

I must insist you use WoH. 2 more seconds isn't debilitating and is worth the extra health.

*Quote*

You should have a secondary spammmable heal on your necro healer anyway. So it shouldn't be a big deal.

That's right. WoH can heal very nice when somebody is under 50% health. I was just thinking when somebody is under high pressure, so the red bar is dropping to 30/50% every time from 100 on, Glimmer of Light could spam the health out, because of it's short recharge. Anyways (My mistake, i thought WoH recharge was 4 sec.) WoH can heal from 30% health to almost 100%. So that's pretty nice.

The only thing I'm still doubting is GoL (glimmer of light xD) has 1/4 cast time, which allows you to respond very fast to pressure cases. Not sure if this matter much, because WoH still has 3/4.

Another question on N/Mo builds, what should a decent secondary heal be? On my monk I usually take Ethereal Light combined with Healer's Boon, gives a big heal which has been casted quite fast.

In some reason I prefer being a N/Mo healer over an N/Rt healer, because of the faster recharging spells. And being N/Mo also allows you to be kinda hybrid. Correct me if i'm wrong. :|

belshazaarswrath · Aug 16, 2010, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiner

Another question on N/Mo builds, what should a decent secondary heal be? On my monk I usually take Ethereal Light combined with Healer's Boon, gives a big heal which has been casted quite fast.

In some reason I prefer being a N/Mo healer over an N/Rt healer, because of the faster recharging spells. And being N/Mo also allows you to be kinda hybrid. Correct me if i'm wrong. :|

Signet of Rejuvenation if you don't need a super spammable heal spell.
Heal other if you want a strong reusable heal.
Healing Whisper isn't bad...you just have to be close to the person.

Also the thing about N/Mo being a good hybrid is true. But I think overall N/Rt is a better heal. Also if you pack Xinrae's weapon you can have a pretty great protting elite. If in human hands you can prevent pretty powerful spikes and have the person get healed instead. But of course healing seed plus prot spirit would be better....

Can't really go wrong with either type of healer though. They are both damn good.

Xenomortis · Aug 16, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Word of Healing
Cast time: 3/4 seconds
Recharge: 5 seconds
Gap between each heal - 5.75 seconds
Max healing at rank 12: 179
Healing per second if spammed: 31.13

Glimmer of Light
Cast time: 1/4 second
Recharge: 1 second
Gap between each heal - 1.25 seconds
Max healing at rank 12: 94
Healing per second if spammed: 75.2

Word of Healing is a Monk's emergency spike heal. It's very efficient if correctly used and to a Monk, efficiency is important.
Since efficiency is much less important to a Necromancer thanks to Soul Reaping, Word of Healing becomes less desirable.

Put another way:
N/Mo with WoH < Mo/X with WoH
Play to your strengths - a Necromancer's strengths do not lie in efficiency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I don't like GoL; it seems slow, and reminiscent of Orison of Healing. In times of pressure it won't help much. If you want spam, Life Sheath. But regardless, take a monk or ele. Necro humans are better off supporting with blood if anything.

0.25 second cast on a one second recharge? Casting Glimmer costs you one second compared to WoH's 1.5 second cost. The heal is less, but you can spam it. In times of pressure, GoL is far better than WoH.
Heal Other or even Infuse Health can serve as your emergency spike heal - you can certainly afford them.
What you really lack are efficient AoE heals - even a Necromancer is going to be pressed to cast a 15e Heal Party whenever he wants.

belshazaarswrath · Aug 16, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Word of Healing
Cast time: 3/4 seconds
Recharge: 5 seconds
Gap between each heal - 5.75 seconds
Max healing at rank 12: 179
Healing per second if spammed: 31.13

Glimmer of Light
Cast time: 1/4 second
Recharge: 1 second
Gap between each heal - 1.25 seconds
Max healing at rank 12: 94
Healing per second if spammed: 75.2

Word of Healing is a Monk's emergency spike heal. It's very efficient if correctly used and to a Monk, efficiency is important.
Since efficiency is much less important to a Necromancer thanks to Soul Reaping, Word of Healing becomes less desirable.

Put another way:
N/Mo with WoH < Mo/X with WoH
Play to your strengths - a Necromancer's strengths do not lie in efficiency.

The human element would effect the speed of casting glimmer though no? Well I guess even with that you're right. I wasn't number crunching.

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 16, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Word of Healing
Cast time: 3/4 seconds
Recharge: 3 seconds
Gap between each heal - 3.75 seconds
Max healing at rank 12: 179
Healing per second if spammed: 47.73

Glimmer of Light
Cast time: 1/4 second
Recharge: 1 second
Gap between each heal - 1.25 seconds
Max healing at rank 12: 94
Healing per second if spammed: 75.2

Actually, WoH has 3 recharge, not 5. Numbers fixed. Your points are still relevant though.

Xenomortis · Aug 16, 2010, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Actually, WoH has 3 recharge, not 5. Numbers fixed. Your points are still relevant though.

Bleh.
I thought 31 looked too low. I had 5 hanging round in my head when I wrote it, even though I'd just looked the skill up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by belshazaarswrath

The human element would effect the speed of casting glimmer though no? Well I guess even with that you're right. I wasn't number crunching.

Happens for both skills, but probably Glimmer a bit more.